Eberron - core rules to the extreme?

[Quasqueton]

You know, one of Eberron's founding principles, I believe, was "This is what happens if you logically apply the RAW to the development of a world."

I've seen this kind of statement many times in various threads. And if I remember what I've read of Eberron from WotC designers, this is indeed one of Eberron's founding principles.

But I have a problem with this idea in Eberron.

First: I have no problem with Eberron, itself. At all. This post is not meant to be an attack on the setting -- I mean no offense to those who like/love the setting.

What I've seen of Eberron (and I read through the setting book), it is not a world that had RAW applied to it's [in game world] development. There are many new things added to the setting that do not come from RAW.

The Dragonmarks -- wholy new things.

The flying ships and lightning rail were not built off expanded, and "legal", uses of existing, RAW, spells. I mean, these things are not built by using this spell in this way, in conjuction with that spell used repeatedly -- they are completely new things with no connection to the RAW that I can see.

For instance, let me use a concept that (as far as I know) is not in Eberron:

Use a summon monster spell to summon a lantern archon. Have the lantern archon create continual flames for use in the city street lights. There, you have a city full of cheap, permanent light sources.

But for "not-Eberron", the light sources would be new magic items or new spells that don't have the material cost.

Am I explaining my "problem" well? Eberron doesn't use or expand on the RAW for it's gimmicks, it seems to have all new stuff created especially for it. I think the concept of using the RAW to create cool new things is a great idea, but creating new things and saying that it is based on the RAW, or built from RAW, is not so cool.

Eberron seems like a cool setting, but the whole claim of it being an application of the RAW just seems a mischaracterization.

I would love to see airships developed by using core spells. Actually, I'm fine with airships that are not created using the core rules. But I have a problem with airships created outside the core rules, but that are claimed to be based on the core rules.

A setting that takes the core rules to the extreme is cool. A setting that creates all new stuff is fine. But a setting that creates all new stuff, and then claims it is based on taking the core rules to the extreme is false advertising.

Or have I completely misunderstood what the claim is for Eberron with regard to the core rules?

Quasqueton

 

[Dice4Hire]

Actually I always found Ptolus to be far more core rules to the extreme.

Ebberron adds way too much stuff.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The Dragonmarks -- wholy new things.

Not really. They're just spell-like abilities. There are (non-rules specific) ways of exploiting dragonmarks, though. I think they might be there to give minor NPCs (like a 1st-level halfling commoners) a bit of magic, enough to set up a healing business, as an example. That halfling isn't going to be healing all day though, not with his weak abilities, but somebody made a "healing item" that amplifies his abilities considerably, provided he bears the Mark of Healing.

Maybe Eberron needs more rules-based dragonmark based items. I don't own most of the books, and it seems to me there's little advantage for PCs to have dragonmarks. There's a disadvantage too; having to listen to your House (or having to run away).

For instance, let me use a concept that (as far as I know) is not in Eberron:

Use a summon monster spell to summon a lantern archon. Have the lantern archon create continual flames for use in the city street lights. There, you have a city full of cheap, permanent light sources.

That doesn't work; IIRC the spell will fizzle as soon as the lantern archon leaves. Also, aren't a lot of extra-planar creatures not able to visit Eberron?

Maybe you should be looking at magewrights instead. Magewrights make a bunch of minor magic items for minor NPCs. PCs don't notice because they need to buy the Big Six; to them, a Broom of Sweeping is useless. However, they could sell an everburning torch to the PCs (and lots of NPCs too). So could a wizard at a magic shop, but there's going to be a lot more everburning torches made and sold by magewrights than by wizards, and they'll have the Commoner/Expert skills to actually run the business (something beyond most mages). But it doesn't really touch the players' consciousness, as buying everburning torches is probably not worthy of being RPed.

So, my long-winded point: it doesn't make sense that you could buy a lot of everburning torches in a setting like FR, but it makes sense that you could in Eberron, where there's a lot more minor spellcasters (albeit a lot fewer major spellcasters). However, in practice this has little effect on the PCs; you don't need to be buying heaps of those things, or other "mundane magic" items. In fact, the PCs might be able to make a bunch themselves on a day off, as they have more resources than the vast majority of NPCs (even if those resources are things like levels and spells rather than gold).

Or have I completely misunderstood what the claim is for Eberron with regard to the core rules?

Quasqueton

Maybe the advertising campaign made a mistake?

I think Eberron was billed as a "logical extension of the core rules" but this area hasn't been explored all that much beyond lower-level NPCs being more useful and magical. This doesn't draw as much attention as the new rules (eg new races, feats, classes, and what have you). By the same token things like warforged, the Silver Flame and magical trains drew more attention than they should.

 

[WayneLigon]

Or have I completely misunderstood what the claim is for Eberron with regard to the core rules?Quasqueton

I think you have; at least, I haven't ever heard that claim made for Eberron. The one I hear applied to Eberron is 'Everything in D&D has a place in Eberron'. Ptolus is the setting where they said 'D&D turned up to 11'.

The airship creation rules are in Magic of Eberron. The main thing that allows this creation to happen in the Planar Binding spell, which exists in the RAW. But I think the RAW has enough wiggle room in it - especially in the item creation and such - that you could easily do most of the Eberron creations just with the PHB magic.

 

[Glyfair]

I think you have; at least, I haven't ever heard that claim made for Eberron.

I have, but I don't think it's 100% accurate. Yes, Eberron was designed to be a D&D world. The D&D rules were considered when designing the setting. That's not the "purpose" of the setting, however. It's just a by-product.

 

[jdrakeh]

But I think the RAW has enough wiggle room in it - especially in the item creation and such - that you could easily do most of the Eberron creations just with the PHB magic.

Sure. Basic D&D had flying sky galleons and submarines. Recreating stuff like that is possible using the RAW. Always has been. Eberron just made it a point to do a lot of it in one setting.