Eberron - Extreme Explorer PrC

[Felon]

It just seems like poeple are desperately fishing for things to hate about Eberron, and we've barely seen any of it yet.

That line's becoming a bit of a double standard. When someone posts a negative impression of Eberron, some folks try to defllate the value of that impression by insisting "you haven't seen enough of the setting to have an informed opinion".

Well, like it or not that rationale's a two-way street. All of the people excited and positive about Eberron have seen just as much (or as little) to base their enthusiasm on. They're not entitled to gush and rave then? Eberron could "r0xx0rz" or it could indeed "suxx0rz" (in all the time I've been on the Internet, I still haven't found out what the "0rz" part is all about).

[EDIT--cuz' EN is right....]
As for the "Extreme Explorer", I think it is a pretty unfortunate naming that is bound to leave a bad taste in some people's mouths. The class features look palatable enough, bot not only is the name garish, it's a bit misleading. Outside of some of its class skills, I don't see much to indicate someone who's actually a good explorer, but rather someone who's just good at avoiding trouble.

As for class features that revolve around Action Points, D20 Modern has similar classes and they seem to be perfectly playable. I don't think that aspect's something to be concerned about overmuch.

 

[EricNoah]

Come on, guys -- talk about the PrC, talk about how much you love or hate the name, but let's not get too deep into mind-reading ("I know this is what you really mean or think" yadda yadda yadda) and labeling people. Say what YOU think, don't put words in other people's mouths. All that jazz.

 

[buzz]

That line's becoming a bit of a double standard. When someone posts a negative impression of Eberron, some folks try to defllate the value of that impression by insisting "you haven't seen enough of the setting to have an informed opinion".

Well, like it or not that rationale's a two-way street. All of the people excited and positive about Eberron have seen just as much (or as little) to base their enthusiasm on. They're not entitled to gush and rave then? Eberron could "r0xx0rz" or it could indeed "suxx0rz" (in all the time I've been on the Internet, I still haven't found out what the "0rz" part is all about).

I'd be just as critical of people gushing over a product they'd never seen. I'm reminded of people reviewing the downloadable preview for Exalted over at RPG.net a while back. (Or how orgasmic people were getting about Gamma World d20, myself included [unfortunately].) Of course, it's hard to get too bent out of shape about people being optimistic, seeing as it happens so rarely.

You should see some of the crackpots who post in the gamingreport.com article forums about Eberron. It's insane. I expect that from the d20-haters, but when I even see it (albiet milder) here at ENWorld, it gets disheartening.

All I'm saying is I find it kinda silly how panty-bound people get before a product has even hit the shelves, be it optimisim or, as is more common, pessimisim. We just went throgh all this with 3.5e, after all.

 

[Pbartender]

First off, I myself am not going to completely rule out a book based on a single PrC or any other single rule. If however, the whole book runs in that sort vein, I'd be strongly disinclinced to not buy the book. That's what I should have said the first time, but I reacted rather *AHEM* extremely to the PrCs title, I'm afraid. Sorry, though I can't speak for anyone else, I didn't mean to criticize the entire work... Just this single piece of the whole.

Second... Well, I was sort of looking for an arguement... more curious what people thought about the name, after an 'extreme'-rumor scare about Eberron passed through not too long ago, and it now appears to be true at least in part.

Personally, I think the choice of the name is a little dissappointing... Not so much because of the relation to a dated fad, but more due to the possibility that people are going to think that WotC is once again 'selling out' to make an extra buck with a pop buzz word.

Why not call it the 'Daring Explorer', 'Professional Adventurer' or 'Lucky [Edited: Watching my language. Sorry.] Fool' even?

Anyway, I'm not real impressed with the PrC itself. I truly do like easy to qualify for, short, 5-level PrCs like this, but it just seems a quick way to grab a few extra Action Dice. None of the other abilities are anything that you couldn't get from a couple levels of rogue or barbarian.

 

[Tortoise]

Why not simply call it Daredevil Adventurer or Dungeoneer?

Then at least you are celebrating the genericness.

How about Daring Archeologist? At least that doesn't sound as lacking in imagination as Extreme Explorer.

 

[coyote6]

Regardless of whether you can look past the word, everyone's first immpression is going to resemble a renaissance Magellan decked out in Raybans and bermuda shorts sailboarding around Cape Horn in a hurricane while slamming down a can of Diet Mountain Dew.

Let's see, "everyone" is the set of all human beings. My first impression upon reading the description & abilities of the prestige class was, "Hey, Indiana Jones." Therefore, I am not part of "everyone".

Hey! Are you callin' me a nobody?!?! Them's fightin' words!

 

[LightPhoenix]

I don't particularly like the prestige class itself - it just doesn't look, well, prestigeous enough to me. On the other hand, I can think of a bunch of ways a group of Extreme Explorers (I concur, poor wording choice no matter how you slice it) could be working into a campaign...

All I have to say on the excitement/dread thing is that excitement usually comes from having top-notch products (or alternatively, nostalgia). The first Matrix movie was great, and that created excitement for the others. Star Wars Ep. 1 had a lot of excitement because of the nostaliga factor. Perhaps there's a reason that when a WotC product comes out, there isn't a lot of excitement. Of course, it could just be jumping on the bandwagon too - lately it seems "in" to bash stuff.

 

[wocky]

I suppose, but does it *always* have to be the predmoinant response, particularly to new products by WOTC? I mean, e.g., wocky is really stretching it with that complaint about Action Points; hit points are just about as nebulous

It's mildly insulting that you consider me part of the "whining masses", particularly because I'm not too fond of whining myself. I certainly didn't do it with 3.5... whatever... I already stated that like the action points mechanic, and am looking forward to Eberron (which I'll probably buy, as much as I'd like to keep gaming in the Forgotten Realms).

You like the PrC? Great! However, you state that "hit points are just about as nebulous as Action Points"... precisely... a PrC based on having more hit points would be totally lame in my book. At least I like to believe that the barbarian has a whole lot more of flavor going on...

I really understand it if other people like the PrC... the fact remains that I'm troubled by the design philosophy behind it. The strongest argument I read is the idea of having this as a "lucky hero" PrC... well, I don't think "luck" is flavor enough for a PrC. Swashbucklers are certainly part of the stereotype, but have many other interesting traits.

 

[Arnwyn]

I found the use of the word "Extreme" in the title of the PrC to be a bit unfortunate, for the reasons Pbartender listed above.

I also found the description of the class to be less-than-impressive.

 

[DonAdam]

I think the name is not meant to have any connection to the Xtreme thing of the last few years. Ideally it would be changed but it won't bother me if its not, because I still won't let a character refer to himself as one without killing him.

Action points make sense in a cinematic setting. Movie characters are often forced to push themselves just a little harder to pull off one herioc deed.

There are two problems I have with it, however:
1) I don't like WOTC's new policy about PrC's, that they're for doing anything that you feel like doing with mechanics in a balanced way. This should be a feat chain and PrC's should be more specific.
2) Being really good with action points shouldn't be tied to all the other abilities that the characters have. Whereas my bias for prestige classes is towards specificity, I also think core classes should be just a bit more generic, like being able to be a skill monkey without sneak attack. Action points shouldn't necessarily be tied to exploration.

On the mechanical side, from what we've seen everything looks more sound than the exorcist that only gives up 1 level of spellcasting and gets Detect Thoughts at will though.

Edit: I take back most of the second comment; I wasn't remembering the class as well as I thought. It's the requirements that I'm not fond of.