Eberron isn't Steampunk

[Nightfall]

Yeah but Conan has nothing on the REAL S&SS crew!

 

[mythusmage]

If he'd look behind the painting in reception he'd have plenty.

 

[Nightfall]

Not following your sentence Mythus. Clarification please.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I must say, I'm beginning to really like the look of Eberron. If they've actually managed to pull off a world where D&D works, without neutering magic, without pretending that you need penniless peasants for it to be realistic, I'll be impressed, because that's what a lot of people seem to be looking for.

Umm, no offense but don't you need a bunch of penniless peasants for any setting to be realistic?

It's not like there aren't plenty around today, indeed more than ever before, and since most people do not live in Luxembourg, highest per capita GDP in the world, you'd assume you'd need them around to be fair to well... people. The fact that you might not see a bunch of penniless peasants toiling away outside your window is more likely a result of zoning laws than technology or realism.

Now you could certainly make an argument that you don't need a realistic setting, but a setting, or worldview for that matter, doesn't become realistic by pretending that magic or technology actually solved all the problems people faced in the middle ages.

Eberron looks fantastic as an MMORPG, but the jury is out for me on regular ol RPG. I don't believe that DnD magic is pulpish enough even for magi-pulp, so I'll be interested to see if a new system comes into play.

Not certain how impressively weird the ark of the covenant could possibly be when everyone has little arks around to clear their skin in the morning.

Now it would be fun if the whole tech magic thing reversed itself and you went looking for the Prototype of the Industrial contract.

 

[Dirigible]

I'd like a fantasy setting based on the antiauthoritarian grittiness of 70's music.

We could call is Punkpunk!

 

[Goobermunch]

Umm, no offense but don't you need a bunch of penniless peasants for any setting to be realistic?

Of course, the relative levels of penniless are quite different today than they were in the Middle Ages.

It's not like there aren't plenty around today, indeed more than ever before, and since most people do not live in Luxembourg, highest per capita GDP in the world, you'd assume you'd need them around to be fair to well... people. The fact that you might not see a bunch of penniless peasants toiling away outside your window is more likely a result of zoning laws than technology or realism.

Technology was responsible for a massive redistribution of labor. The mill helped turn farmers into bankers.

Now you could certainly make an argument that you don't need a realistic setting, but a setting, or worldview for that matter, doesn't become realistic by pretending that magic or technology actually solved all the problems people faced in the middle ages.

Clearly it didn't. However, it did address many of them. When was the last time you had a bad case of cow pox? Small pox? Polio? When was the last time you had ricket or scurvy? When was the last time a group of viking raiders swept through your town, burning, looting, and pillaging?

Eberron looks fantastic as an MMORPG, but the jury is out for me on regular ol RPG. I don't believe that DnD magic is pulpish enough even for magi-pulp, so I'll be interested to see if a new system comes into play.

Not certain how impressively weird the ark of the covenant could possibly be when everyone has little arks around to clear their skin in the morning.

Now it would be fun if the whole tech magic thing reversed itself and you went looking for the Prototype of the Industrial contract.

The point is not that every adventure involves the Ark of the Covenant. Not every D&D game involves a quest to recover an artifact. The point is that those memes are available to draw upon and are supported by the system.

I mean really, are the hand, eye, and head of vecna really worth all the trouble to track down? Why should I go looking for the Rod of Seven Parts! I can just make magic items that duplicate some of their abilities on a smaller scale.

It might be better to think of it in terms of the Maltese falcon. The Maltese Falcon was valuable, it was unique, but it wasn't powerful.

Thus, the PCs could find themselves hired to head of to the recently rediscovered Lost City of Xixichulbzatl to recover a few samples of pre-dynastic collapse Xixichubzatlian pottery. Maybe they pots they're looking for are tools for an evil arcane ritual . . . or maybe their employer is a lazy archeologist.

--G

 

[Psion]

Dungeons & Bling-Bling

I'd say since the game already has a focus on (magical) bling, that would be indistinguishable from a standard game.

 

[Henry]

...I just knew it was going to be something that would epitomize a ridiculously over-the-top magic-driven world. Lightning rails and air-elemental-powered jet planes, huh? Sure, why not? After all, what could ever be heroic about long, arduous treks across great seas or open country?

Here's my argument against that: We already HAVE that. We have it through Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Diamond Throne, Scarred Lands, and half a dozen other settings.

Not that I begrudge spellpunk settings, but I do wish that WotC would acknowledge that there are different flavors of fantasy. That's why I for one am looking forward to Grim Tales and the Conan RPG.

Both of those will have their audiences, and I for one am glad. But this is striking me as totally different from any D&D setting that has come before.

Tell me: Do you find Indiana Jones, Flash Gordon, and Doc Savage heroic? If so, what is the heroic component of them?

To me, the heroic component of them is the men of action in the last days of exploration. The world is hopeful, technology is progressing, but there are still the dark and mysterious places of the world that hold mysteries of chaos and superstition in a world that seeks to impose order over everything. These heroes ride the cusp of a dying era, the border between ancient and modern.

If traditional D&D is "bebuilding after a bygone era" fantasy, then Eberron represents the fantasy of "the break between the ancient and the modern." It's the modernistic component that many don't agree with, and there's nothing that can help that; you either like it or you don't. But it's important to identify both types as valid; I just think I've seen quite enough of the former, and am ready for something new.

 

[rounser]

(magical) bling

*ahem*
"Phat lewtz" is the more correct terminology for such accessories, I believe.

 

[romp]

Of course, the relative levels of penniless are quite different today than they were in the Middle Ages.



Technology was responsible for a massive redistribution of labor. The mill helped turn farmers into bankers.


--G

I realize that this is a digression from the Eberron discussion since we really do not know much at all about the society/economics in the setting, but I do not think that the Industrial Revolution changed the economic outlook for lots of farmers. The American Revolution and other cultural shifts took place because people were tired of never owning any property. Farmers wanted to own the land they farmed and not be beholden to any entity across the sea. Since the IR happened and the technological pace has jumped there are still farmers but they are right back to being basically tenant farmers for corporations instead of leige lords. Fewer and fewer farmers own either the land or the crops themselves. Tyson chicken owns the eggs, hatchlings, chicks, chickens, feed, etc. and the majority of the chicken farmers are just contract labor that takes care of the products in the meantime.

There are a lot fewer farmers now than say, before WW2. Having a car/home/mortgage/flatscreen TV/computer/DVD/outdoor BBQ/etc. does not make you better than penniless. It just means you have more toys that you have to work to pay off (read enslavement). The bankers before the IR did not suddenly lose everything in the "wealth-shift" and find a whole bunch of former farmers in their midst, a lot less people were needed to farm food efficiently. That enabled a lot of people to move to the cities and find work in sweatshops and factories under conditions that made farm life really attractive.

Eberron will most likely have a mix of societies but with just the trickle of info so far it is only speculation to say that it will be anything in particular. Most likely there will be a nation on the map that will encompass each style of society and economic system, but the vast majority of gamers find those kind of details boring.