Eberron = power creep or just pushing the envelope?

[Graf]

This thread isn't meant to be a thread about complaining about Eberron, and I haven't had the chance obviously to see the book in full. This thread isn't particularly meant to decrease people's enjoyment of the game or the new setting either.

But stuff has come out in Dragon, and I presume it's the same as the stuff coming out in the books (correct me if I'm wrong please).
Looking at the warforged I'm wondering if we're seeing another round of "turning the dial to 11". (I've given it some more thought doing this analysis and I'm not sure)

The warforged (dragon 318).
The sidebars from the authors make it clear that they wanted the race to be ECL+0 so people will like the race and play it. I've seen some bitter players myself over the whole thing so I can understand the desire. But warforged PCs are (in most situations) significatly better than other character races in the PhB (do all the races get extra powers in Eberron?)
If someone brought a race to me with the same powers and a different backstory (psionically rebuilt humans, partially undead) a few weeks ago I would have rejected it outright. If someone posted it to the boards as a homebrew race with the feats they have availible they would be told to make it ECL+1 or more (and probably mocked).

Look at them
+2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
effectively always wearing leather armor, effectively with the magical light fortification power
does not heal naturally, but automatically stabilizes, can be healed by both arcanists and divine casters
immmune to poison (monk 11th level power)
immmune to paralysis (??)
immmune to disease (monk 5th)
immmune to energy drain (10th level power of undead hunter PrC)
does not eat, breath or sleep; immmune to fatigue, exhuastion (??)
natural attack 1d4

Furthermore for a single 1st level feat they also can receive a permenent 16,500 gp item (adamanitine full plate complete with DR2) at no cost.
[I know what my psion warforged's first feat is going to be.]

while not healing naturally is irritating, natural healing actually appears rarely infrequently in most high magic D&D games. I assume that super-high-magic Eberron that it's even less necessary. Especially since arcane casters and psions can heal Warforged as well.

So, do the other races get power bumps? Was there are reason that they had to receive adamantine full plate at 1st level, and not normal full plate (only a 1500 gp value)...

 

[Alzrius]

Given the multiple rounds of nerfing D&D as a whole has been seeing the last few years, this really doesn't seem so bad (didn't they have some other drawbacks also?).

 

[BobROE]

It could be something with WotC. I mean FR can be overly powerful at times (and hey I run a FR campaign).

 

[Old Fezziwig]

But don't the warforged only get healed by repair spells (that is, cure light wounds and what not won't work)? If that's true, they may be able to be healed by both arcane and divine casters, but you can't, AFAIK, spontaneously cast the repair spells and a wizard or sorcerer using slots on spells to heal is kind of moving out of his range of expertise.

This is minor, of course, and I've seen the other bonuses that you've listed. I haven't seen Eberron yet, but that feat is enough to make me raise an eyebrow. I'd really have to see it in play to know how I feel.

Best,
Nick

 

[Greylock]

"So, do the other races get power bumps? Was there are reason that they had to receive adamantine full plate at 1st level, and not normal full plate (only a 1500 gp value)..."

If I read Dragon correctly, this is the only armor the creature will ever have. Makes it a little important. Again, I could be wrong...

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm more concerned about the immunities, myself....poison, disease, paralysis, energy drain, fatigue, exhaustion, no food, drink, sleep, or air....I could see save bonuses against them due to their semi-construct nature, but outright immunity is pretty potent...definately something I'd nerf, unless some evidence can be given that it is, in fact, balanced...

The other stuff don't bother me much -- armor is easy to overcome, and they're spending precious resources to get it.

And the other thing is the Dragonmarks -- Warforged can't have 'em. So I wonder if that's how they power-up the other races -- Dragonmarks might give them some inherent abilities on par with those immunities...

Eberron does seem to be shaping up to be power creepin' along, but the ideas are great enough that I'll nerf as I see fit (changing those immunities to save bonuses; say +2 or +4; would be one of those things).

 

[Banshee16]

This thread isn't meant to be a thread about complaining about Eberron, and I haven't had the chance obviously to see the book in full. This thread isn't particularly meant to decrease people's enjoyment of the game or the new setting either.

But stuff has come out in Dragon, and I presume it's the same as the stuff coming out in the books (correct me if I'm wrong please).
Looking at the warforged I'm wondering if we're seeing another round of "turning the dial to 11". (I've given it some more thought doing this analysis and I'm not sure)

The warforged (dragon 318).
The sidebars from the authors make it clear that they wanted the race to be ECL+0 so people will like the race and play it. I've seen some bitter players myself over the whole thing so I can understand the desire. But warforged PCs are (in most situations) significatly better than other character races in the PhB (do all the races get extra powers in Eberron?)
If someone brought a race to me with the same powers and a different backstory (psionically rebuilt humans, partially undead) a few weeks ago I would have rejected it outright. If someone posted it to the boards as a homebrew race with the feats they have availible they would be told to make it ECL+1 or more (and probably mocked).

Look at them
+2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
effectively always wearing leather armor, effectively with the magical light fortification power
does not heal naturally, but automatically stabilizes, can be healed by both arcanists and divine casters
immmune to poison (monk 11th level power)
immmune to paralysis (??)
immmune to disease (monk 5th)
immmune to energy drain (10th level power of undead hunter PrC)
does not eat, breath or sleep; immmune to fatigue, exhuastion (??)
natural attack 1d4

Furthermore for a single 1st level feat they also can receive a permenent 16,500 gp item (adamanitine full plate complete with DR2) at no cost.
[I know what my psion warforged's first feat is going to be.]

while not healing naturally is irritating, natural healing actually appears rarely infrequently in most high magic D&D games. I assume that super-high-magic Eberron that it's even less necessary. Especially since arcane casters and psions can heal Warforged as well.

So, do the other races get power bumps? Was there are reason that they had to receive adamantine full plate at 1st level, and not normal full plate (only a 1500 gp value)...

Keep in mind that Warforged can be healed by Fortification or Cure spells. But they don't heal naturally.

Ever.

That makes the Warforged in the party a natural "cure" sink that will subtract necessary healing resources from the other characters in the party..

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

"So, do the other races get power bumps? Was there are reason that they had to receive adamantine full plate at 1st level, and not normal full plate (only a 1500 gp value)..."

If I read Dragon correctly, this is the only armor the creature will ever have. Makes it a little important. Again, I could be wrong...

I'm pretty sure that's correct. Yes, they have a feat that allows them to have their Adamantine armor.....but they can't ever wear a suit of armor. So they lose all the other fun stuff that powerful magic armor can do by level 20 (ie. slickness, shadow, etc.).

Banshee

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I'm more concerned about the immunities, myself....poison, disease, paralysis, energy drain, fatigue, exhaustion, no food, drink, sleep, or air....I could see save bonuses against them due to their semi-construct nature, but outright immunity is pretty potent...definately something I'd nerf, unless some evidence can be given that it is, in fact, balanced...

Yeah immunity is always good, but other than energy drain and air I'm thinking so what. Really how often is there disease in the game at all, I mean sure occasionally some one might cast contagian but other than that??. And poison while immunity to it is potent its rare enough that I don't care much. Fatigue, exaustion, food, drink I could care less. I don't have many PCs working at the coal mines so fatige and exaustion only come up when I throw a maroon at them who is stupid enough to cast those lame spells in 3.5 that cause it. And no eating, on no he saves 5gp a week. Paralysis is potent but elves are immune to the most frequent sort I'm used to seeing which is the ghouls touch and it hasn't broken anything.

No need to breathe on its surface isn't a big deal and probaly isn't but there may be some creative uses with it and underwater dealings that may throw things off. But hey a 3rd level spell lets the whole party breathe underwater so its probaly not a big deal.

Energy drain though is one of the big pains in the butt at all levels past like 5 so immunity to that would be strong, but I'm not so sure its game breaking.

 

[teitan]

I would say the Warforged are better balanced than soulmechs myself. The adamantine thing bothers me not one whit because man, they don't get armour.

Jason