[Eberron] Revisiting Warforged

[XCorvis]

In the game I run, I feel that the warforged character is slightly overpowered for ECL +0. After some discussion about house ruling them, I wanted to hear what other people thought.

I find that the immunities are the main reason warforged are too strong for ECL +0. Basically, they are immune to most incapacitation effects - paralysis, stunning, poison, Hold Person. I think this is particulaly effective at lower levels.

The natural attack and permanant armor is also very effective. It means the warforged can never be disarmed or disrobed. Add to this the ability to enchant your own body. So now, not only do you walk around always armored, your armor is really good. This more than offsets the inability to wear other armors. (And robes? I've never seen a character buy a robe...)

The healing penalty isn't particularly effective. My party uses Wands of Cure Light Wounds as a primary healing source. Sure, they burn through it a little faster, but they really didn't have too much trouble. They could have also picked up a wand of repair light damage (which the rogue/warlock in the party could easily use). At later levels, they did fork over for an eternal wand of repair moderate damage. (The wf character carries Oil of Repair and tattoos of Psionic Repair Damage for healing during combat.)

I'm interested in other opinions. How have the warforged been in your games? Are they really ECL +0 or are they closer to +1?

 

[Klaus]

I don't find them particularly overpowered (at least not when compared to, say, a dwarf).

For comparison's sake, here are three PCs from my Eberron campaign:

Guardian
Male Personality Warforged Pal2
Medium Construct (Living Construct)
HD 2d10+6(Paladin) ; hp 22
Init +0; Speed 20 ft. (4 squares)
AC:19 (Flatfooted:19, Touch:10; +8 Adamantine Body, +1 buckler*);
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+5
Attack: Greatsword +5 melee (2d6+4, 19-20);
Longbow +2 ranged (1d8, x3)
Longspear +5 melee (1d8+4)
Morningstar +5 melee (1d8+3)
Slam +5 melee (1d4+4)
Special Attacks: Smite Evil/Construct 1x/day (+1 attack, +2 damage).
Special Qualities: DR 2/adamantine, no natural healing; vulnerability to chill metal, heat metal, repel metal or stone, repel wood, rusting grasp; light fortification (25% chance of negating sneak attack or critical hit); Aura of Good, Detect Evil at will, Durable Will (Con modifier adds to Will save)
Immunities: Poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, fatigue, exhaustion, nausea.
AL LG; Saves Fort +6, Ref +0, Will +3
STR 16, DEX 10, CON 17, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 12.
Skill mod ranks ability misc.
Craft (Armorsmithing) +7 5 +0 +2 masterwork tools
Knowledge (Nob&Royal) +1 1 +0
Knowledge (Religion) +2 2 +0
Listen +0 0 +0
Ride +1 1 +0
Search +0 0 +0
Spot +0 0 +0
Feat:
Adamantine Body.
Possessions: Greatsword, Longbow, Arrows (20), Morningstar, Longspear, Buckler, Masterwork Armorsmith`s tools, Backpack; Silver Holy symbol, 3gp.
Action Points: 6

Soranda Moonhunt
Female Shifter (Razorclaw) Druid1
Medium Humanoid (Shapechanger)
HD 1d8+1(Druid) ; hp 9
Init +5; Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
AC:15 (Flatfooted:12, Touch:13; +3 Dex, +2 leather);
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+2 [+2]
Attack: Scimitar +2 melee (1d8+3, 18-20);*
Sling +3 ranged (1d4+2);
[Scimitar +3 melee (1d8+4, 18-20)];*
[2 claws +3 melee (1d4+3];
[Scimitar +1 melee (1d8+3, 18-20) and claw +1 melee (1d4+1)]
* - Soranda wields her scimitar two-handed.
Special Attacks: Spells, shifting (1/day, duration 7 rounds).
Special Qualities: Beast spirit, low-light vision, nature sense, wild empathy +1 (+5).
AL NG; Saves Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +2
STR 14 [16], DEX 16, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 15, CHA 10.
Skill mod ranks ability misc.
Balance +6 1 +3 +2 racial
Climb +5 [+6] 1 +2 [+3] +2 racial
Concentration +2 1 +1
Handle Animal +5 1 +0 +4 w/ beast spirit
Heal +3 1 +2
Hide +3 0 +3
Jump +5 [+6] 0 +2 [+3] +2 racial
Knowledge (Ntr) +3 1 +0 +2 w/ nature sense
Listen +8 3 +2 +2 w/ Alertness, +1 w/ Shifter Instincts
Move Silently +3 0 +3
Sense Motive +3 0 +2 +1 w Shifter Instincts
Spot +8 3 +2 +2 w/ Alertness, +1 w/ Shifter Instincts
Survival +6 2 +2 +2 w/ nature sense
Swim +4 [+5] 2 +2 [+3]
Feat:
Alertness (b)
Shifter Instincts
Possessions: Leather armor, scimitar, sling, holy symbol (mistletoe), backpack, rope, flint and steel, 5gp.
Spells Prepared 3/2
Shifting: +2 Strength, 2 Claws (1d4 damage)
Action Points: 5

Drago Vedenin
Male Human Artificer1
Medium Humanoid
HD 1d6+1(Artificer) ; hp 7
Init +2; Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
AC:16 (Flatfooted:14, Touch:12; +2 Dex, +3 studded leather, +1 buckler*);
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+0
Attack: Light crossbow +2 ranged (1d8, 19-20);
Light mace +0 melee (1d6)
Longspear +0 melee (1d8)
Special Attacks: Infusions.
Special Qualities: Artificer knowledge +4, artisan bonus, disable trap, item creation.
AL NG; Saves Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +2
STR 11, DEX 14, CON 13, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 14.
Skill mod ranks ability misc.
Appraise +4 1 +3
Concentration +2 1 +1
Craft (Alchemy) +3 2 +3 -2 (no tools)
Craft (Wpnsmth) +7 4 +3
Disable Device +7 4 +3
Knowledge (Arc) +7 4 +3
Listen +0 0
Open Lock +6 4 +2
Search +7 4 +3
Spellcraft +7 4 +3
Spot +0 0
Use Mgc Device +6 4 +2 +2 w/ scrolls
Feat
Point Blank Shot (+1 to hit and damage up to 30 feet)
Precise Shot (no penalty at firing into melee)
Scribe Scroll (b)
Possessions: Studded leather armor, buckler, light crossbow, crossbow bolts (10), longspear, light mace, alchemist’s fire, acid (2), weaponsmith’s tools, thief’s tools, backpack, bedroll, waterskin, 2 gp.
Infusions Known: 3
Craft Reserve: 20
Action Points: 5


Even though he's one level above the other two ('cause the character will enter the party by the time the other two are 2nd level), Guardian really suffers, skill-point-wise. Most of his abilities are defensive in nature, and his stats are far more average than the other two (all with 32 point-buy).

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

They're +0.

The vast of their immunities are to things which tend to become non-issues anyway later in the game, either through advanced class abilities, spells, or magic items.

Additionally, yes, they're always in their armor, but then again, they can never *change* their armor. That Adamantine Body feat is pretty good at low levels, but, eventually, it will be outstripped by real adamantine armor.

I am planning a one-off where the entire party (except for the wizard) is warforged. None of the characters are vastly more powerful than a normal human os the same class would have been.

 

[irdeggman]

Warforged also have an unbalanced ability adjustment (not inn their favor)

+2 Con, -2 Wis, -2 Cha.

Con and Cha are equal (see dwarf) so that leaves a penalty to Wis.

That is one of their penalties.

Enchanting their body is really not that much of an advantage - they still have the same limits on enchantments as other "items" do.

They are also subject to spells that target items as well as living targets - like heat metal and rusting grasp.

 

[ForceUser]

To add to what others have already pointed out, I'd like to note the warforged character's most striking disadvantage--spells of the healing subschool are only half effective. In a party without an artificer or wizard with repair spells, that's a huge disadvantage. Even if the wizard does have repair spells, he's not a cleric, and he won't be in the front ranks healing the 'forged fighter as he's getting tooled. For non-Eberron campaigns or Eberron campaigns without artificers in the PC group, this disadvantage can be the death of a 'forged PC, especially a melee character. As we all know, damage comes fast and furious as levels progress.

 

[Creeping Death]

The natural attack and permanant armor is also very effective. It means the warforged can never be disarmed or disrobed. Add to this the ability to enchant your own body. So now, not only do you walk around always armored, your armor is really good. This more than offsets the inability to wear other armors. (And robes? I've never seen a character buy a robe...)

One way to challenge a warforged is make sure that penalties for armor actually count. A second level character is very ineffective with a -20-something modifier to his swim check. I'm in a game where my character with banded mail and steel tower shield has a -26 penalty to swim. Had to fight a water elemental in a flooded room, kept failing my swim check so I could only take a 5 ft step. Also I could not fight because I kept failing my swim check. Heavy armor hurts climbing. It also prevents (severly hampers) sneaking, jumping, and several other skills.

Keep track of weight. Adamantine is heavy. Do you think he's going to be fighting and charging across a rickety old rope bridge if he weight 400 to 500 lbs? Old run down house with rotted wooden floors. How much weight will it withstand before it collapses.

You don't have to do this all the time, but adding some of these elements will do a few things. One, it will challenge him. Two, it will allow others to shine in combat. Three, it will show that certain things can and will have mechanical drawbacks, such as weight and noise.

If you keep these things in mind, the ECL +0 is fine.

 

[Creeping Death]

Forgot

Most adventures that I see, either published or ad hoc, lack skill uses. I don't mean the I sneak down the hall, search for traps, pick locks. I mean more knowledge, craft, and other types of skills. Skills need more use than just allowing one to get into a prestige class.

No spoilers please but right now we are going to the Age of Wyrms campaign and I am just amazed at the amount of skill checks that we need to make just to know things or just to get to another part of the adventure. When these become more integrated armor, weapons, clothing and other items will be given even more thought, not just how much damage or protection they provide but also how certain skills will be effected and what skills to purchase.

Just my $0.02

 

[XCorvis]

To add to what others have already pointed out, I'd like to note the warforged character's most striking disadvantage--spells of the healing subschool are only half effective...

I really haven't seen this be an issue. In my game, the wf is the front line fighter (monk, actually) and he takes the vast majority of damage. The other characters are a ranger, rogue/warlock and psion (shaper). The ranger is the healer - usually with a wand of CLW. The rogue/warlock uses an eternal wand of Repair Moderate Damage on the wf, but only after combat. The wf is doing just fine with his own personal repair items, which cost the same (IIRC) and have (in Eberron, at least) the same availability as normal healing items.

I'm sure this is much more of an issue in games where the party is out in the bush with no supplies, but in a game with regular trips to a large city it becomes a minor inconvenience, if that.

 

[XCorvis]

One way to challenge a warforged is make sure that penalties for armor actually count...

That is an excellent point, and one I had forgotten. Thanks!

That reminds me of another wf issue - not needing to breathe. That's like getting a free necklace of adaptation at first level. :\

 

[ForceUser]

I really haven't seen this be an issue. In my game, the wf is the front line fighter (monk, actually) and he takes the vast majority of damage. The other characters are a ranger, rogue/warlock and psion (shaper). The ranger is the healer - usually with a wand of CLW. The rogue/warlock uses an eternal wand of Repair Moderate Damage on the wf, but only after combat. The wf is doing just fine with his own personal repair items, which cost the same (IIRC) and have (in Eberron, at least) the same availability as normal healing items.

I'm sure this is much more of an issue in games where the party is out in the bush with no supplies, but in a game with regular trips to a large city it becomes a minor inconvenience, if that.

Availability of magic items is certainly a factor--IMC, there are no magic shops from which to buy potions and other such trinkets. If the player group doesn't have the ability to craft such items themselves, then repair spells for warforged are more difficult to come by and hinge upon using roleplay interactions to develop relationships between the PCs and NPCs who can be persuaded to help. Because of this, playing a race IMC for which healing is half as effective is not as appealing a choice as it is in Eberron. I'm fine with that; warforged are supposed to be rare IMC anyway.

As an aside, the fact that your main healer is a ranger with a wand suggests to me that your party is still low level. That trick doesn't work for in-combat healing once you're fighting hill giants, vampires, and other such nasties that can truly bring the pain. So good luck with that.

I predict deaths.