Graf said:
They have century-long schemes and are presented as vastly dangerous for the average party. I.e. you could assassinate some minor evil politician person and by the next morning an assassination squad (from a completely different group that has no overt connection) would quietly and efficiently wipe you out.
While this certainly COULD happen with the Dreaming Dark, it's not actually how I play them... because you're absolutely right, a force that is so overwhelmingly powerful that the PCs have no chance against it is no fun for anyone.
Now: I realize that what you're asking for here is entirely different approaches to the quori. But I wanted to at least present a few thoughts on how I personally use them.
First: Dal Quor. The quori are not masters of Dal Quor... rather, il-Lashtavar - the Dreaming Dark itself - is. And il-Lashtavar is a force beyond the understanding of even the quori. So the quori don't control Dal Quor; their god does. Likewise, human dreams occur in the border realms, which are wild and chaotic. In my opinion, the
dream and
nightmare abilities of the quori reflect their power to manipulate mortal dreams. But they are not omniscient. All the usual rules of
nightmare apply; the quori has to have at least some connection to locate you, and unless he is familiar with you, you'll get a hefty bonus to your will save. This principle should be extended to all quori dreamwork. If the quori are particularly interested in a subject - say, Queen Aurala - they may watch her dreams for years before they start manipulating, in order to build that connection. But if you bust in and kill a mind seeded agent serving the Dreaming Dark, they have no knowledge of you and no way to respond.
Second: The monolithic nature of the Quori. This is intentional. In my mind, the quori are the MOST monolithic force in the Eberron Campaign Setting. This is what makes it different from the Lords of Dust, the Chamber, and the other major power players - its agents generally ARE working towards a single goal. This also reflects the utterly inhuman nature of its agents. I hate to see this taken away, because in my opinion at that point you might just as well use the Lords of Dust; that level of unity is one of the major differences between these groups, along with the fact that the quori are in their view fighting for the preservation of their species... they are loyal both because of their alien nature but also because of the importance of their cause. But if you want to break that up, I'd consider the following ideas:
- The quori serve il-Lashtavar. At the moment, only the Devourer of Dreams speaks for il-Lashtavar. But what if another quori claimed to be chosen by il-Lashtavar... and claimed that the Devourer was misguiding them, leading them down a false path for his own benefit? Monolithic by nature, the quori would likely split into two factions as opposed to thousands... but this would give you a solid basis for a quori civil war.
- Many of the quori schemes use mind seeds as opposed to Inspired. Mind seeds are USUALLY loyal to the Dark because of the fanatical nature of the personality that inspired them. But there are always exceptions - and a rebellious mind seed is far more likely than a rebellious quori. The quori have infiltrated dozens of organizations; that doesn't mean that every operation will go perfectly, and a certain dragonmarked enclave could easily do something unexpected. As said earlier, the quori possess a considerable influence and knowledge... but they are not omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent.
Third, we have that thousand year plan. This works on a number of levels. The quori are immortal. They spent a thousand years pacifying Sarlona, and they are prepared to spend centuries on Khorvaire. They may try to find shortcuts - as seen in my novels. But the point is that they will not be as frustrated by defeat as a mortal organization would. COULD they try to organize an assassin squad to come after the PCs who foil a plan? Certainly. But is it worth it? Are the PCs threatening the thousand year plan, or just this year's experiment? Bringing assassins to bear may actually be more disruptive to their schemes, or draw unwanted attention. Furthermore, the key point is that the PCs are pivotal individuals... and the quori will likely recognize that. Why kill them now, when a year from now they might be the perfect tools for your next experiment? The quori are not driven by the simple desire for revenge. They are cold and analytical. Many have been around for over 300,000 years; letting something lie for a few more years while you decide the best path is nothing. Perhaps you will approach the PCs openly. Perhaps you will try to manipulate them into fighting ANOTHER force that has foiled your plans in the past... either way, you win. The main thing is that the Dreaming Dark won't respond like the Boromar Clan. They won't try to whack you just because you crossed them. They'll study you, consider your value, maybe even create entire scenarios to gauge your strengths. And this overconfidence may give you a chance for even greater victories.
Now, a critical exception to this is the group of PCs who goes around permanently destroying quori spirits (with soul bind or something similar). If you kill the quori agent on the city council, you've hurt them. But they can recover from that. Perhaps it will take a decade to get a new agent, but they have a decade. On the other hand, their own numbers are limited, and if you permanently eliminate a large number of quori they will pull out the stops, purely out of self-preservation. Yet even here... the group of quori-killers can still succeed, as long as they act with stealth. The quori aren't omniscient, and a bound spirit won't be able to report back. The quori will spare no expense to locate the binders, but careful and resourceful players can defend against scrying and stay on the move.
The quori are intended to be one of the most challenging foes in the setting. As said, they are the most monolithic force in the setting, and have exceptional communication and coordination. When fighting Inspired in Khorvaire, you have to consider the diplomatic impact of your actions. But... so do they. In Xen'drik, they can unleash their full Inspired death squads. But in Khorvaire, they are trying to keep the friendly face. Your PCs will get in trouble if they kill the Inspried ambassador; but likewise, the Inspired will want to act through catspaws and dupes to keep from damaging relationships.
Just to look at the previous points... let's assume the PCs have just screwed up a quori plot. They've exposed a mind seed conspiracy in a House Cannith enclave, where the seeds were building a eldritch machine that might have repaired the planar damage faster than the monoliths.
Graf said:
The DM plays the foes with with a modicum of intelligence -> PCs are viciously and suddenly attacked by overwhelming forces.
The key points here: the PCs have already foiled the plot. That's over. What I'm saying is that the quori don't care about revenge, and for that matter, they don't care TOO much about that one plot. It would have been disastrous for the world if the PCs hadn't foiled it, but to the quori, it's just not that big a deal. Do they actually think the PCs are going to foil their entire thousand year scheme, or was this just a fluke? Add to that the point that what the players have done is shown potential. Perhaps THEY can be used. Again, for a group like the Boromar Clan - a mortal criminal organization with finite resources and only a few schemes afoot - bloody vengeance is called for. But in my mind the quori are more likely to see a group of low-level adventurers as an interesting potential tool than as a dangerous opponent who must be eliminated at all costs.
Graf said:
The DM runs the foes as morons. PCs win, but the players spend the next six months going “so, why are we still alive?”
My point is: run the foes as intelligent as far as they go. Remember, the House Cannith enclave likely doesn't KNOW it's working for the Quori. Could the Quori use their influence in House Tarkanan to aid the besieged Cannith? Yes. But in so doing, both Tarkanan and Cannith will say "Wait... why are we working together again?" and that alliance would draw more outside attention. So the quori may choose to have Cannith stand on its own, so it CAN'T be traced to other operations. Operating just with the resources available to them, the Cannith heirs will act brilliantly. But you're fighting House-Cannith-Heirs-Manipulated-By-The-Dreaming-Dark, not Every-Organization-The-Dark-Influences.
And if the PCs nonetheless DO see the big picture and say "Why are we still alive?"... they SHOULD wonder. They SHOULD be afraid. Because the answer is likely "You're still alive because the Dreaming Dark believes that you are more useful alive than dead."
Graf said:
A “series of improbable events” occurs to keep the players alive.
In my opinion, such an improbably event would more likely than not be staged BY the Dreaming Dark to keep the PCs from questioning their survival.
Graf said:
The PCs are epic level; the spy organization isn’t...
Well, that's not the case with the DD. But that's actually the point to me. At low levels, the PCs aren't going to be seen as a serious enough threat to require drastic action. At epic levels, they MAY pose a threat. It's the Dark's overconfidence that will prevent it from acting before this; and it's at this point that the fight can actually prove a challenging one. It's still going to be an unusual fight; PCs who intend to have an all-out soul-destroying war with the Dark will need to evade spies, remote viewing, even dream assaults. It would be a very different sort of battle than you'd get with the Emerald Claw. But, of course, that's why we included the Emerald Claw - to provide a different type of conflict for a different type of player.
That is the key in my mind: the different groups are suited to different styles of play, and I
don't recommend trying to force all of the power players into every campaign. I think you should pick the big dogs - Vol, the Daelkyr, the Chamber, the Lords of Dust, the Quori, the Lord of Blades - that best suit your play style, and ignore the others.
Anyhow, I realize all of this is off-topic for the thread, since the question is "How to change Dal Quor", not "why are things the way they are". I look forward to seeing what others come up with!
