[Eberron] Warforged Origins - SPOILERS!

I still think the original 'forged were unintelligent for a reason, Quori were bound to Docents and took over the construct when needed. Then when the body was destroyed, they were simply moved to another. Or any animating force was bound to the docent.

I like to think that Canniths achievement was binding the animating force to the Warforged rather than through the docent.
 

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(Psi)SeveredHead said:
Those are ordinary (current design) warforged. Most of them would be warforged who switched allegiance to the Lord of Blades with the end of the Last War, and a few others may have been made by the LoB's barely functional forge.

There's no reason at all for these warforged to be different from regular warforged.

No. That's the city of Construct, in the Mournland. The city of warforged in Xen'Drik is given no official explanation and isn't even officially confirmed to exist -- it's just a rumor -- but it almost certainly has nothing to do with the Lord of Blades. There's no conceivable strategic reason for him to set up an outpost there, and the Xen'drik city is supposed to be self-contained and to have remained hidden for countless generations and such. They're probably giant-manufactured warforged of some kind.

As for my theory on the transition from Quorcraft Warforged to the standard model:

Quori make quori warforged, as a vessel to hold quori spirits.

Giants copy the design but, being giants, attune it to *their own* forms rather than the quori.

But giant spirits *can't* inhabit warforged -- there's no natural way in which giants' spirits can come detached from their bodies and inhabit other corporeal forms. None except high-powered necromantic effects... or death.

Imagine the giants building warforged and attuning them to giant souls rather than quori, and the warforged seeking out a connection to the *wrong plane* -- the only source of giants' souls and other mortal souls, Dolurrh, and interrupting the process of fading (and possibly the cycle of reincarnation) to take mortal souls and shove them into shiny new metal bodies.

I've always liked the idea of warforged as forcibly reincarnated mortals, and the whole quorforged thing only adds to it, in my mind -- the idea that warforged are only vessels for spirits, and that the warforged *body* by itself has no inherent power to produce sentience.
 

I think it's misplaced to focus on Quori possessing warforged too much. Sure they could. They also clearly used the docents for that purpose somewhat. Possession wasn't as important to them then as it is now, though. At that time they could get here! They can't do that now, and are limited to possession to get here.
 

Glyfair said:
I think it's misplaced to focus on Quori possessing warforged too much. Sure they could. They also clearly used the docents for that purpose somewhat. Possession wasn't as important to them then as it is now, though. At that time they could get here! They can't do that now, and are limited to possession to get here.

Well, I'd imagine it has to do with.. death.

A quori physically present could be killed. (Sure he'd respawn, but he'd not be himself anymore, so I assume they don't want that.) A quori possessing a docent or 'forged would not risk more than displacement.
 

Vocenoctum said:
Well, I'd imagine it has to do with.. death.

A quori physically present could be killed. (Sure he'd respawn, but he'd not be himself anymore, so I assume they don't want that.) A quori possessing a docent or 'forged would not risk more than displacement.

Except, if they could get here, in theory the giants could go there where their bodies would be sitting ducks.

Then again, we haven't heard too much about either of these battle being taken back to the other planes (neither Dal Quor, or Xoriat).
 

While the "modern" quori, who created the Inspired, are unrelated to the quori who fought the giants and created the warforged, it's plausible that the Inspired is this iteration of quori's version of the impulse that led to the warforged first time around.
 

Glyfair said:
Except, if they could get here, in theory the giants could go there where their bodies would be sitting ducks.

Then again, we haven't heard too much about either of these battle being taken back to the other planes (neither Dal Quor, or Xoriat).

No, I don't think the quori's physical body still exists while it's possessing someone. It sort of turns into an incorporeal entity that channels itself into the host -- it uses the Fiend Folio rules for possession, which don't assume an interplanar interface (in Fiend Folio a succubus can walk right up to you and possess you by jumping into your body).

In any case, Keith Baker has said that the reason for the quorforged was the quori's fear of the Turning of the Age -- if the Age turns and the Quor Tarai changes its nature, all existing quori, no matter where they are, die and turn into the new generation of quori. These quori wanted to prevent that, which was the reason they invaded the Material Plane in the first place -- they thought if they could conquer the giants they could prevent whatever change in giant civilization was going to cause the Turning. The quorforged were insurance in case they failed -- they thought by turning themselves into docents, and not being quori anymore, their consciousness would continue even if Quor Tarai changed.
 

Taraxia said:
No, I don't think the quori's physical body still exists while it's possessing someone. It sort of turns into an incorporeal entity that channels itself into the host -- it uses the Fiend Folio rules for possession, which don't assume an interplanar interface (in Fiend Folio a succubus can walk right up to you and possess you by jumping into your body).

I'm pretty sure this is covered in Dragon #324 (the one that covers the Quori). Unfortunately, my copy has vanished (not an uncommon occurance with my D&D books scattered in various places in my apartment). I don't remember whether they do or don't.

I do remember some comments about how dangerous it is for a quori to "switch sides" because of the qualities of Dal Quor. They are pretty vague right now.
 

Taraxia said:
The quorforged were insurance in case they failed -- they thought by turning themselves into docents, and not being quori anymore, their consciousness would continue even if Quor Tarai changed.
Essentially correct. Here's a post I put on another board or thread (I don't even remember!) about this subject:

[sblock]In asking why the Quori would create a race of creatures that cannot dream, you're missing the point. Quorcraft warforged were useful to the Quori precisely BECAUSE they didn't dream.

Quorcraft warforged are flat constructs. They are not built to be an independent race. They are, essentially, bodies for docents. Read the description of the artifact docent more closely; at least one group of the quori of that age were trying to sever all ties to Dal Quor in the hopes of surviving the Change. The point is that the quori believed that even if they were physically present on Eberron, the turn of the age would destroy them, just as the Inspired believe it will destroy THEM. The docent program was creating an anchor, distiling the quori spirit and severing it from body and plane (using artifact level magic). The Quorcraft warforged is a disposable pair of arms and legs for this indestructible soul.

Now, members of various giant civilizations see Quorcraft warforged in use. They even see docents, apparently serving as advisors to warforged. They take this inspiration and create their OWN warforged (which as noted, would be useful, dreamless troops). THIS is where you get Xulo from Grasp of the Emerald Claw. And this is where you can develop your own path for the warforged, if you don't like Xulo OR the Quorcraft history. The Sul'at League may have created a form of warforged empowered by elementals; in the Shattered Land, we see an obsidian golem, so the League understands the principles of constructs. The Group of Eleven may have created docents holding the bound spirits of mighty giant sages. Cannith drew inspiration for the warforged from Xen'drik. But WHERE did it find its inspiration? The Quorcraft warforged? Xulo? Or something entirely different?

"Warforged" are like "four-wheeled transports". In our history, you can find horse-carts, automobiles of various designs and engineering, even a child's wagon. Someone had the idea first, but a later idea - though superficially similar in form and function - may be completely different under the hood. The giant docent uses the same principles as a sentient sword, while the quori docent is an anchor for a spirit from another plane. From the outside? They look the same, and seem to perform roughly the same function. But they are far different in nature and full potential. The Quorcraft warforged ARE less advanced that modern warforged. But that doesn't stop you from having advanced warforged created by an ancient society in your campaign. [/sblock]
As noted in the last paragraph, this still leaves room for any number of other warforged paths. The Quorcraft warforged were not intended to be sentient, meaning that the modern warforged have taken some sort of serious jog in the path - whether it's the work of House Cannith, or whether modern warforged are based on a giant design. If you want to say that modern warforged are sleeper agents for the Quori, you certainly could... though I'd suggest that the key to this would be hidden in Xen'drik, since the quori of the modern age were not the creators of the Quorcraft.

Again, ultimately, everything is suggestion. In my mind, the Quorcraft warforged are another piece of the puzzle. But the fact that they aren't sentient - and weren't designed to be sentient - shows that there's still pieces missing and space for you to fill in. And if that's not enough - if you just hate the Quorcraft, or have a better idea - don't use them! It's your game too.
 

Hmmm.

That all makes perfect sense Keith, thanks.

But it fails to answer the really important mystery:

How do the Sleestacks of Xen'drik fit into all of this? ;)

Were the gold, advanced Sleestack an early attempt for the quori to create "perfect corporeal vessels," a failed prototype for the Inspired?

The Sleestack pyramids: first generation quori monoliths?

Sleestack power crystals? The first "docents"?

And just what did Wi'ra d'Cannith find on his "routine expedition" to Xen'drik? Should he have brought the primitive native Chakka back to Cyre to help with his Creation Forge? (Was Chakka ultimately responsible for the Day of Mourning?)

And what of his sister Ha'ree d'Cannith? Does she now wander the jungles of Xen'drik alone, mastering the ancient Sleestak crystal technology? Or has she become possessed by an ancient quori spirit from a docent she uncovered, now an unwitting agent of Dal Quor?

These and other mysteries must be uncovered!
 
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