[Eberron] What is the place of the Dragonmarked Houses in the setting?

[Aeric]

All of the espionage and shadow wars going on between the Houses makes the megacorp analogy even more fitting.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

All of the espionage and shadow wars going on between the Houses makes the megacorp analogy even more fitting.

Well, that's not quite accurate. Megacorps frequently compete in the same industries. The Dragonmark Houses don't - they each have their own specialty in which the other houses can't compete easily (while most Dragonmark effects can be dublicated by spells, it takes more effort and training to do so, and thus their quasi-monopoly is secure).

It's more accurate to describe them as guilds and merchant companies that have won monopolistic concessions. Think the East India Company.

That doesn't mean that the Houses don't compete with each other - but it's usually about convincing a certain ruler or other wealthy person about services of which Dragonmark House he should spend his hard-earned money on. There is only a limited amount of money around, and most Houses want to make sure that their slice of the pie is as large as possible.

There is definitely room for espionage and sabotage between the houses, but espionage will be less about "stealing their secrets so that they can copy them" (because odds are that they can't) but knowing what these secrets are in the first place - so that that knowledge can be used in future negotiations or blackmail.

 

[Dave Turner]

Great points, Jurgen, and they raise questions that I should at least consider.

Maybe the monopolistic nature of the Houses needs to be downgraded a bit. Despite modern anachronisms like the lightning rail and the Orien telegraph system, Eberron is still very much a nineteenth century world. It's not "flat" in the Thomas Friedman sense of the word. Travel is still difficult and an upstart competitor to the Houses can't rely on globalization and the Internet to compete. As a result, Jurgen's suggestion about blackmail through espionage is a good one.

Sabotage, on the other hand, is trickier. If the Houses are so indispensible, then sabotage would have to be limited in order for it to be a viable tactic. Destroying the Orien infrastructure in a kingdom might free up some royal cash for your House, but, if the Houses were ubiquitous, it could throw the local economy into chaos. Stability is good for profit and too much sabotage would seem counterproductive to your own bottom line. The nineteenth century nature of Eberron means that a significant economic disruption could be more harmful than it would be in a modern corporate analogy. If the Houses engage in minor or nitpicking forms of sabotage, however, then the drama of sabotage is reduced.

An important part of the campaign's structure, however, involves a threat to the supremacy of the Dragonmarked Houses. Maybe the campaign should be focused on this threat and the dynamism that I feel the Houses might be lacking will be introduced by the threat?

I don't have the books with me, but does anyone remember what spell levels the various dragonmarks correspond with? For example, does the Least Mark grant a 2nd level spell, the Lesser a 3rd level spell, and the Greater a 4th? Jurgen's point about the relative ease with which the Dragonmark gives the Houses a magical leg-up by significantly reducing magical training costs for those abilities prompted this question.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Sabotage, on the other hand, is trickier. If the Houses are so indispensible, then sabotage would have to be limited in order for it to be a viable tactic. Destroying the Orien infrastructure in a kingdom might free up some royal cash for your House, but, if the Houses were ubiquitous, it could throw the local economy into chaos. Stability is good for profit and too much sabotage would seem counterproductive to your own bottom line. The nineteenth century nature of Eberron means that a significant economic disruption could be more harmful than it would be in a modern corporate analogy. If the Houses engage in minor or nitpicking forms of sabotage, however, then the drama of sabotage is reduced.

Well, the other houses are unlikely to, say, sabotage the lighting rails unless there is a shipment coming up that a member of another house really doesn't want to come through. They all are dependent on a certain common infrastructure - the lightning rails, Sivis message stations, Kundarak (?) bank vaults, and so on - and they don't want to destroy that or antagonize the other houses too badly.

But, well, consider how the most powerful members of the Houses make money. Sure, managing the local infrastructure is a steady way of getting a good income, but it is boring. No, the really big money - and the really big prestige - comes from big, juicy contracts that consists of selling really expensive things to very wealthy people - nobles, governments, merchant princes, and even other Dragonmark houses. But it is a sad fact that even those fabulously rich people only have a limited amount of money. So the representatives of those houses will go all the way to ensure that they make the sale, and no one else.

And that's where things get vicious.

 

[Solarious]

If you want to run a game where the Dragonmarked Houses are cyberpunk multinationals, then the Aurum is antagonist organization for you. They're the guys who think Khorvaire should be run as an plutocracy: the rich (capable, competent, and optionally ruthless) rule. They feel that the kings and queens of old are nice: good figureheads, but that's all they should be. There are many members of Dragonmarked Houses in their ranks, and there is even a 'Shadow Cabinet' that is the true sinister face behind the platinum concords.

The real threat in these campaigns are the people with... 'ideas' getting into power in the percisely wrong places at the worst times possible. The matriarchs and patriarchs of the present (mostly) are concentrated on the 'old' ideas of simply maintaining their specialities' economic superiority and advancing the interests of the house (basicly earning money), but that could change if new, impressionable members of the house were to get a sudden leg up... or if their superiors/compeditors were suddenly be cut a few size catagories down, if you know what I mean.

However, it's an illusion that Dragonmarked Houses don't compete. Look at House Cannith: they were producing Warforged as supplemental troops, which clearly steps on the toes of House Deneith. House Tharashk also deals in monsterous mercenaries from Dorram, which is also bad news for Deneith. Vadalis Magebred guardians are also a vector for competition in the bodyguard business.

Lyrander competes directly with Orien in transportation. Medani Inquisitives and Tharashk Trackers have overlapping interests. Cannith and Kundarak butt heads behind the scenes in personal security. Phiarlan and Thuranni are obviously working against each other, and they directly conflict with the goals of Deneith and Medani.

As for the halfling houses, Jorasco and Ghallanda, they aren't really glamourous businesses that are easily replicatable, but they need to work to maintain their advantages. Little competition to speak of, but also not exactly room for serious breakthroughs either.

And Sivis.... well, gnomes are gnomes. They know how to snuff out competition in their chosen vector without a whisper.

The moral of the story? If you're Small, then you have a superior position in industries over your taller counterparts.

I don't have the books with me, but does anyone remember what spell levels the various dragonmarks correspond with? For example, does the Least Mark grant a 2nd level spell, the Lesser a 3rd level spell, and the Greater a 4th? Jurgen's point about the relative ease with which the Dragonmark gives the Houses a magical leg-up by significantly reducing magical training costs for those abilities prompted this question.

Least Marks give spells of around 0th to 2nd level, Lesser 3rd to 4th, maybe 5th, and Greater grants spells of 6th and 7th level, while the legendary Siberys marks generate something into the 8th to 9th level reigons.

Also, Dragonmarks also let you 'break the rules', as it were, at least in magical items in a narrow range. If you consider the Dragonmarked Focus items in the ECS, they are severly undercosted and also come with abilities you really can't get any other way. Unlimited Whispering Wind with 10 times the speed and unlimited range? And it only costs 10k gold? That's crazy talk! Not even bumping up the caster level on a regular, unlimited use wonderous item of Whispering Wind to 20 gives you this kind of power on communication.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I think the biggest problem with Dragonmarked Houses as megacorps is that although, as written, they tend to butt heads, most have no realistic reason to do so. They aren't in the same industries, they aren't competing for the same gp, and most of them require each others services to operate.

Even in the grimmest cyberpunk dystopia, United Airlines is not about to engage in a secret war with AT&T because they don't want people to call instead of traveling, nor is AT&T going to sabotage Ford to make people telecommute. Although the results might improve their bottom lines, they are ultimately peripheral to their businesses. Most of the megacorp-on-megacorp action in cyberpunk stories is between corps in the same business: to use the examples above, it would be, say, United vs. Southwest, AT&T vs. Verizon, Ford vs. Toyota.

Now, as Solarious pointed out, some of the houses DO compete with each other. However, (with the exception of Phiarlan and Thuranni) the most obvious examples seem to involve House Cannith stepping on the toes of the other houses. The others aren't as clear-cut. Lyrander and Orien, for example, seem to cater to entirely different transportation needs, just as blimps and earlier airlines catered to a different crowd than rail lines in the early 20th century. Of course, absent major commerce across an ocean, Lyrander's 'real world' role would be considerably reduced, so perhaps they have more reason to attack.

Trouble is, nothing the houses do to each other in the way of industrial espionage (cyberpunk's meat and potatoes) will give them all that much of a leg up. House Lyrander can learn all the secrets of the most advanced lightning rail car ever produced... but can't make a lightning rail car of its own, or even, IIRC, control the existing ones. House Orien is in the same boat re: airships.

House Cannith is the only Dragonmarked House that has a reasonable chance of mimicking the services its competitors provide. House Cannith can't build, and in particular can't fly, an airship? Perhaps, but it can mass-produce flying carpets. House Cannith can't build ready-made mercenaries? Perhaps, but it can mass-produce warforged. House Cannith can't build better crops? Perhaps, but it can mass-produce farming equipment.

Overall, most of the Dragonmarked House plot hooks, at least in the early Eberron material, seem to revolve around House Cannith, and it seems to have been hyped as something of a god-house - perhaps rightly. Of course, its actual power is weakened considerably with its base of operations gone and its leadership fragmented... which makes it even more plot hook-rich.

 

[Dave Turner]

More great material to chew on.

But, well, consider how the most powerful members of the Houses make money. Sure, managing the local infrastructure is a steady way of getting a good income, but it is boring. No, the really big money - and the really big prestige - comes from big, juicy contracts that consists of selling really expensive things to very wealthy people - nobles, governments, merchant princes, and even other Dragonmark houses. But it is a sad fact that even those fabulously rich people only have a limited amount of money. So the representatives of those houses will go all the way to ensure that they make the sale, and no one else.

And that's where things get vicious.

I see where you're going here and I'm halfway with you. We see this all the time in the modern world when it comes to U.S. defense or engineering contractors. The Lockheed-Boeing rivalry for Air Force contracts and the Haliburton-Bechtel conflict for Iraqi reconstruction contracts strike me as examples of what you're going for.

The analogy doesn't quite seem to extend to Eberron, though, since the setting really does contain monopolies. There aren't a pair or trio of titans battling it out for the big contracts, like Haliburton-Bechtel. There's just Kundarak for banking or just Lyrander for airships. In this sense, I'm more in tune with what MoggleEmpMog writes later:

I think the biggest problem with Dragonmarked Houses as megacorps is that although, as written, they tend to butt heads, most have no realistic reason to do so. They aren't in the same industries, they aren't competing for the same gp, and most of them require each others services to operate.

Solarious brings out some great sources of potential competitive tension between the houses, even if MoggleEmpMog does take a tiny bit of wind out of those sails (and Jurgen's):

Even in the grimmest cyberpunk dystopia, United Airlines is not about to engage in a secret war with AT&T because they don't want people to call instead of traveling, nor is AT&T going to sabotage Ford to make people telecommute. Although the results might improve their bottom lines, they are ultimately peripheral to their businesses. Most of the megacorp-on-megacorp action in cyberpunk stories is between corps in the same business: to use the examples above, it would be, say, United vs. Southwest, AT&T vs. Verizon, Ford vs. Toyota.

Kudos to Solarious for helping me readjust my thinking there. What I liked most about Solarious post, though, was the reminder about the Aurum!

If you want to run a game where the Dragonmarked Houses are cyberpunk multinationals, then the Aurum is antagonist organization for you. They're the guys who think Khorvaire should be run as an plutocracy: the rich (capable, competent, and optionally ruthless) rule. They feel that the kings and queens of old are nice: good figureheads, but that's all they should be. There are many members of Dragonmarked Houses in their ranks, and there is even a 'Shadow Cabinet' that is the true sinister face behind the platinum concords.

The real threat in these campaigns are the people with... 'ideas' getting into power in the percisely wrong places at the worst times possible. The matriarchs and patriarchs of the present (mostly) are concentrated on the 'old' ideas of simply maintaining their specialities' economic superiority and advancing the interests of the house (basicly earning money), but that could change if new, impressionable members of the house were to get a sudden leg up... or if their superiors/compeditors were suddenly be cut a few size catagories down, if you know what I mean.

I hadn't even remembered that the Aurum existed, but now they're a great potential antagonist for what I have planned. If not an antagonist, then at least a presence or force in the campaign. The idea of rebellious, iconoclastic House members threatening the status quo also plays nicely into my ideas.

Ultimately, it might be better to emphasize the House of Saud characterization of the Houses over the zaibatsu/megacorp component. In fact, maybe the Aurum would be better portrayed as the megacorp with the Houses on a pure Saudi model?

 

[MadMaxim]

Interesting discussion you people got going here. I was wondering why the industrial espionage part wouldn't work so well in Eberron. Wouldn't there be a possibility that House Cannith could have some plans for a new experimental airship or other craft that House Lyrandar would very much like to get their hands on before Cannith finishes it? Then they'd be able to produce it themselves instead of having to pay whatever Cannith feels like charging for it. Well, it was just an opinion regarding the espionage part anyway.

 

[Remathilis]

I don't have the books with me, but does anyone remember what spell levels the various dragonmarks correspond with? For example, does the Least Mark grant a 2nd level spell, the Lesser a 3rd level spell, and the Greater a 4th? Jurgen's point about the relative ease with which the Dragonmark gives the Houses a magical leg-up by significantly reducing magical training costs for those abilities prompted this question.

IMHO, the spells are gravy. True marks are too rare to rely on them SOLELY for their SLA's. Money gets made when you factor in Dragonshards.

Dragonshard Items (particularly Syberis) allow a character a limited use of his dragonmark for a nearly unlimited amount of times. House Orien doesn't corner the market on travel by having house heirs Teleport 1/day, they make it by using a dragonshard to make a lightning reigns so that the heir can move hundreds of people overland at much cheaper cost to the house (ds items are cheaper than pure magical equivalents) exclusivity (why build a railway ANYONE can use when you're house ALONE can use them?) and cost (the volume of people and cargo easily recoup costs of item creation, so you can charge ALOT less and still turn a profit).

Its why a wizard's guild doesn't use sendings and arcane marks to put House Sivis out of business; what would cost them (and thus thier consumers) 100s of gold to do House Sivis (via dragonshard-augmented tech) can do for 10s of gold. That is why each hous cornered their respective market.

House Cannith is the only Dragonmarked House that has a reasonable chance of mimicking the services its competitors provide. House Cannith can't build, and in particular can't fly, an airship? Perhaps, but it can mass-produce flying carpets. House Cannith can't build ready-made mercenaries? Perhaps, but it can mass-produce warforged. House Cannith can't build better crops? Perhaps, but it can mass-produce farming equipment.

House Cannith is actually better at making money by SUPPLYING the other houses with the technology needed. House Cannith build the Lightning rails (and got a lot of gold for building and upkeep) while Lyrander reaps the rewards of passenger fare. Again, the use of Dragonshards cheapens the price quite a bit, so its again in their interest to make "house-specific" magic rather than general uitity (to wit; If it cost much less to make a train line from Detroit to Chicago than to make 100 cars, car's would never have never taken off. Same with Airships/Flying Carpets).

You want espionage and betrayal, cut off the shipments of Dragonshards to the houses and see what happens...

 

[Dave Turner]

IMHO, the spells are gravy. True marks are too rare to rely on them SOLELY for their SLA's. Money gets made when you factor in Dragonshards.

Dragonshard Items (particularly Syberis) allow a character a limited use of his dragonmark for a nearly unlimited amount of times. House Orien doesn't corner the market on travel by having house heirs Teleport 1/day, they make it by using a dragonshard to make a lightning reigns so that the heir can move hundreds of people overland at much cheaper cost to the house (ds items are cheaper than pure magical equivalents) exclusivity (why build a railway ANYONE can use when you're house ALONE can use them?) and cost (the volume of people and cargo easily recoup costs of item creation, so you can charge ALOT less and still turn a profit).

Its why a wizard's guild doesn't use sendings and arcane marks to put House Sivis out of business; what would cost them (and thus thier consumers) 100s of gold to do House Sivis (via dragonshard-augmented tech) can do for 10s of gold. That is why each hous cornered their respective market.

Great comment. This clarifies what Solarious was only hinting at regarding Dragonshard Items. It puts the Dragonmark into great perspective. It's the Dragonshard items that make the Houses great, not the fact that a small fraction of them have SLAs. I don't recall this point being properly made in the core book. This also ties in very well with my campaign idea to boot!

You want espionage and betrayal, cut off the shipments of Dragonshards to the houses and see what happens...

This idea isn't central to what I'm planning, but could be spliced in to complicate things.