[Eberron] Why I like Warforged

[Staffan]

Dark Sun isn't the original source, though. They showed up in, IIRC, Monster Manual II back in 1e (and I think they were on a trading card before that). Their first 2e appearance was, I think, the FR Monstrous Compendium Appendix. They weren't very well fleshed-out before Dark Sun (and especially the Thri-kreen of Athas sourcebook), but they've been around for ages.

 

[Dav]

While that's true, its also about the best you can hope for. You'll find the 'humans in funny suits' syndrome all throughout science fiction and fantasy. I think that has less to do with lazy authors and more to do with the virtually impossible task of pioneering new modes of cognition. How does one go about thinking not like a person? It hard enough making convincing human characters...

Usually the best you can do is give each alien race a shitck ("They all logical"), or a very human concern they prioritize ("They're honorable" or "They''ll do anything for their children"). The racial equivalent of what one of my old professors called 'giving every character a limp. There's a very good reason why fictional aliens (as opposed to the real ones, I suppose) are often just humans with certain traits exaggerated.

I might be disagreed with here, but I always thought that the Race (Lizards) of Harry Turtledove's "Worldwar/Colonization" series to be excellent examples of a well-thought out alien species. Their biology and history really made 'em, I thought.

 

[bento]

I've remembered another place where Warforged came across as dull - the "Day in the Life" description of the Warforged in "The Races of Eberron" book. The Warforged sits and guards a factory (I think) all day watching the world go by. The chapter's descriptions of how Warforged act and interact is full of introspective stuff, but nothing to help you craft a character to interact with others. Only when I see a Warforged in a "non-traditional" class like bard, do I think the race might have something really interesting, if not downright bizarre, to offer. Otherwise, it's just strong and silent, over and over.

A prior poster mentioned Changelings as cool races - I agree. The "Races" book offers three different outlooks on life to approach the character, each one giving a player something to use. I don't have the book in front of me, but their outlooks can be:

• Adopt one identity and stick to it (hiding your changeling-ness)
• Take on many different personalities (revel in your changeling-ness)
• Strive for the essence of what you are (always be one with your Changeling-ness)

Heck, I even like the Shifters and think its a race that players can "sink their teeth into."

 

[Klaus]

I've found when I've DMed an Eberron game that players who choose to play a Warforged end up with a character with no personality.

I've read both of Baker's Eberron novels and most of the character development going on with Pierce (the party's warforged) is his internal dialog about his role with his group and in society. This is especially true in the second novel, "The Shattered Land" where he has to decide where his loyaties lay. As far as outward personality though, he has none. His role is to basically kills or subdues opponents.

Pierce is very different from Spike, the warforged in Keith's D&D Fiction installment, "Shadows in Stormreach". He's basically Jayne, from Firefly/Serenity.

 

[BryonD]

First, disliking THIS new thing does not make one opposed to new things.

I don't find tinman/Lt Cmdr Data/C-3PO to be particularly new or innovative.
That doesn't make it bad. But it doesn't really give any big credit either.

The things I dislike are:
The extremely clear android concept associated with them is quite grating unless you want a strong magi-tech theme. Which I do not.

The idea of a "living construct" seems a really tortured method for getting to a LA0 race. Make them be living or make them be constructs. It is like they were constrained with serving the rules and failed to really capture what these war machines logically should be in deference to making them meta-game available at L1. IMO

I also have issues with the balance. I can allow for sake of argument that the pluses and minues cancel out. But even with that I find it problematic. The nature of what those pluses and minuses are is sufficently extreme to be disruptive within a party of otherwise "normal" races.

I'd agree that a player can certainly immerse themself into being in character. But, I don't agree that the same player could not do so just as well with an elf or dwarf. Or if you want something "new", use a Faen or Mojh, or any of a vast number of other races out there that don't come with the meta-game compromise baggage.

To me the story positives outlined in the OP do not off-set these detractions.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The "Races" book offers three different outlooks on life to approach the character, each one giving a player something to use. I don't have the book in front of me, but their outlooks can be:

• Adopt one identity and stick to it (hiding your changeling-ness)
• Take on many different personalities (revel in your changeling-ness)
• Strive for the essence of what you are (always be one with your Changeling-ness)

That's one problem I have with non-human races. Instead of giving them separate flavor, they're given restrictions disguised as flavor.

To be honest, it's hard to give a new race flavor while still allowing for individual distinctiveness. I'm not surprised by the "funny suit" results.

 

[hbarsquared]

I like this thread.

First, I agree with the uniqueness of the warforged concept. In fact, the uniqueness of the Eberron races was one of the things that hooked me in the first place. Changelings, kalashtar, and shifters are all much more than "humans in funny suits." They each have a completely different cultural mindset, built into the character races themselves.

Also, on the topic of representing alien psychologies:

From the writer/roleplayer's perspective:

If we're writing them, what else could they be than something inside us?

You are entirely correct, I think. Because a human is creating the role, the role can be nothing more than something intrinsically human, anthropomorphic, if you will.

From the readers perspective: No one wants to read about something truly alien. When we read, we want to associate ourselves with the characters, see and understand how characters develop. If the character was utterly alien, without any human connections, the reader would be unable to identify with the character.

So not only must the creator come up with something with some human characteristics, the humanness of a character is necessary for the reader to enjoy it.

 

[prosfilaes]

1) Powergaming. For some reason, some people see "four claws" and think "four weapons" or, worse, monks. Thri-kreen of Athas made wielding three weapons difficult and four weapons impossible. The DM starts thinking anyone who wants to play a thri-kreen is a munchkin. You never see "wild" thri-kreen quadro-wielding. TKoA also made it abundantly clear that thri-kreen don't learn martial arts. If you want your thri-kreen to kick arse with claw attacks, give him four levels of fighter.

... duel the leader (in a perfectly fair unarmed combat contest) for the leadership of the group.

Just about any group that isn't pacifistic and that isn't completely ineffectual at hand-to-hand combat will have some people who learn the art of beating other people up with their bare hands (aka martial arts). Even if the thri-kreen were so alien that they avoided this perfectly logical course of action, I refuse to believe they could be so alien that they would duel for leadership with an unarmed combat and not train for it.

Frankly, both monks and four-weaponed combat are the players wanting to do cool and entirely reasonable things with their characters. I suspect if you made quad-weapon combat less effective than dual-weapon combat, people would still want to do it, because it looks cool. And given the way 3rd ed. lets any race be any class, I find it bizzare to refuse thri-kreen monks, and hard to comprehend why there wouldn't be any thri-kreen monks.

 

[Umbran]

That's one problem I have with non-human races. Instead of giving them separate flavor, they're given restrictions disguised as flavor.

I'm unsure as to whether this is a matter of interpretation. I strongly suspect any flavor you can write down can be pretty easily read as a restriction, whether it is intended or not...

To be honest, it's hard to give a new race flavor while still allowing for individual distinctiveness.

There must be a basic understanding between the author and the reader - any description of an entire race is either horribly restrictive, or it has to be of the stereotypical members. And there's only so far one can go to make that explicitly clear without bogging down the prose.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Just about any group that isn't pacifistic and that isn't completely ineffectual at hand-to-hand combat will have some people who learn the art of beating other people up with their bare hands (aka martial arts).

Uh huh. And the monk is good at that? The monk "stole" the unarmed combat niche and that's only because Improved Unarmed Strike, as written, sucks. There's other subtler factors, like the general chaotic bent of the thri-kreen (this is kind of hidden in 3e) and their racial memory, which basically teaches them how to use their weapons.

And no, thri-kreen who already have natural weapons aren't going to get a whole lot out of learning monkishness.

Even if the thri-kreen were so alien that they avoided this perfectly logical course of action, I refuse to believe they could be so alien that they would duel for leadership with an unarmed combat and not train for it.

They do. It's called Weapon Specialization.