[Eberron] Why I like Warforged

[Umbran]

From the writer/roleplayer's perspective:
You are entirely correct, I think. Because a human is creating the role, the role can be nothing more than something intrinsically human, anthropomorphic, if you will.

While surely the tendency is there, I have to question the absolute statement. It carries with it the base assumption that the human mind is incapable of grokking that which is unlike itself. Humans have, time and again, come to understand that which started out as inscruitable.

Orson Scott Card addresses this somewhat in the Ender's Game series. He takes some stuff from Swedish:

Utlännings - are people you are sure you understand. They are of the same species and culture as you are, and getting an idea from your head into his is pretty easy. The guy from the town over the hill is an Utlänning.

Framlings - are of your species, but not your culture. Since you share so many basic elements, you can understand a Framling's point of view with just a bit of effort. For a Medieval European, the Japanese of the same time would have been Framlings.

Ramen - are those who are not of your species or culture, but you are similar or bright enough that you can grasp each other's perspectives well enough to coexist peacefully, with some work. Full Vulcans are ramen to humans. Spock was probably a framling.

Varelse - are those creatures so alien to you that no level of understanding is possible. If it is varelse, it might as well be a force of nature. The thing's processes are so different from your own, you couldn't even say the thing was sentient as you understand the word. Communication between you and them is impossible. If you share resource needs, peaceful coexistance is not possible. The critter from Alien is varelse.

Card rather questions whether anything in the universe is really varelse. He suggests that the human mind is pretty darned flexible and imaginative, and can comprehend very different ideas if given a chance.

 

[Mallus]

I'm going to disagree with you about whether people can play a different species without doing the "humans in funny suits" bit or not, but I think that simply comes down to where we're individually setting the bar.

I set the bar pretty high. Speaking of bars, if you want to continue discussing the more general philosophical point, I'll gladly do so if there's liquor present. I'm of the opinion liquor helps whenever things careen into the philosophical...

I don't, however, find it a negative thing. Finding a way to explore an alien psychology and doing so within the exigencies of the game only makes it a little more challenging. And since the aim of the game is to have fun, if I can embark on such an exploration and enjoy it, however hackneyed or philosophically/psychologically ineffectual it may be, and still add to the group's enjoyment, that's a win-win situation, right?

I don't find trying to play an alien a negative thing, either. Quite the opposite. My point wasn't to disparage the attempt, my point was to criticize the disparaging of the likely result, ie the funny-suited human.

I'm all for broad explorations during play (and to extend this, in fiction). What irks me are other people rather glibly dismiss the end-product of said explorations, as if it were an easy thing to slip into the cultural persepective of a member of a society 500 years past, or worse, into the mind of a being that doesn't need to eat, sleep, or f***.

All I'm asking is that folks lay off the poor 'humans in funny suits'. Because, you know, they're people too.

Fame, fortune, and the Nobel are all well and good, but gaming kicks their collective asses all over the map.

Shil, I hate you, but in a friendly sort of way...

 

[kigmatzomat]

I've found when I've DMed an Eberron game that players who choose to play a Warforged end up with a character with no personality.

I've read both of Baker's Eberron novels and most of the character development going on with Pierce (the party's warforged) is his internal dialog about his role with his group and in society. This is especially true in the second novel, "The Shattered Land" where he has to decide where his loyaties lay. As far as outward personality though, he has none. His role is to basically kills or subdues opponents.

Give 'em a Bolo book to read. Keith Laumer was the original author of the Bolo AI-tank novels but a number of others have started writing in the Bolo-verse. At least one story addresses a Bolo straight off the assembly line that is dropped in the soup. It was one of the recent short story compendiums but it was notable for a Bolo using it's primary weapon as a propulsion system so it could act as a Thor strike.

IMO, the better warforged stories are the ones of the warforged that fought in the war and have personalities. You've got the one who's personality is almost a duplicate of his first commander, a 'forged jack-of-all-trades that's picked up a bit of virtually every skill thanks to battlefield make-do but almost never made it to the front line, adrenlain-junkies who feel that risking death is the only way to feel alive, and the warforged that refuses to take responsibility for any actions claiming he has only been following his creator's orders (shades of predestination).

 

[bento]

That's one problem I have with non-human races. Instead of giving them separate flavor, they're given restrictions disguised as flavor.

To be honest, it's hard to give a new race flavor while still allowing for individual distinctiveness. I'm not surprised by the "funny suit" results.

I don't think of WoTC's attempts of illuminating a particular race as "restrictions disguised as flavor" but more like possible hooks for a player to start with. As a DM, when I'm creating interesting NPCs, reading the text on Changeling psychology gives me a world of possibilities for my players to interact with. And as a player, while I know that I'm not beholden to following the text verbatium (this isn't dogma after all), it does provide inspiration to try something new and different when I interact with members of my party and the larger world.

 

[Felon]

I hate to sound quarrelsome, but why is this page so much wider than it needs to be? Is it somebody's sig?

Some of us view in 800 x 600 resolution.

 

[JohnSnow]

I actually really like Warforged as a race, not because they're unique, but because they provide a somewhat unique opportunity. That may sound contradictory, but I'll explain.

A warforged is NOT an android. Yes, you can start there with your personality hook, but a warforged is a bit like (again, not precisely) Frankenstein's monster. The monster starts out as a simple flesh golem, animated by science (well, magitech, really). Turns out, he develops a soul. Why? Hmmm...

To me, that's an interesting question. I actually find the "living construct" works better than the pure construct race. Warforged aren't "magically animate, self-aware constructs," they're magical constructs...with souls. That's just...cool.

It's Bicentennial Man. They're alive...aren't they? Even the gods would probably say yes. Hell, they may even BE repositories for old souls. Who knows how the Eldritch Machine involved "makes personalities."

That's a LOT of RP hooks beyond what a pure construct race would have.

As for why Thri-Kreen aren't cool...they are...but they'd be cooler if they were more like Bug...

Who's Bug, you ask? What? You never *tic* read *tic* Micronauts?

Keith did.

But standard thri-kreen? They're just too creepy.

 

[Hussar]

All I'm asking is that folks lay off the poor 'humans in funny suits'. Because, you know, they're people too.

I probably should. But, it just irks me that after years of gaming, I still see people taking various non-human races and essentially playing "humans that can see better in the dark". So long as the player is actually making an attempt to make his or her race a part of the character, I'm groovy. It's when there is no attempt at all that gets my back up.

I hate to sound quarrelsome, but why is this page so much wider than it needs to be? Is it somebody's sig?

Some of us view in 800 x 600 resolution.

It's that stupid flash ad at the top of the screen for that new Dragon novel. Screws up the screen. I feel your pain. I've viewing pages with no style all the time because it's the only way I can read it.

 

[BryonD]

A warforged is NOT an android. Yes, you can start there with your personality hook, but a warforged is a bit like (again, not precisely) Frankenstein's monster. The monster starts out as a simple flesh golem, animated by science (well, magitech, really). Turns out, he develops a soul. Why? Hmmm...

A different set of words to get to the same defintion.

To me, that's an interesting question. I actually find the "living construct" works better than the pure construct race. Warforged aren't "magically animate, self-aware constructs," they're magical constructs...with souls. That's just...cool.

Well, mechanically speaking they are magically animated self-aware constructs.... with nearly all the things that make them constructs removed so that they can work as a PC race at level 1.

I mean, just saying "they have a soul" sounds cool and all. And yes, it allows them to have the "can be ressurected" part. But so what? Once you get to "self aware and has a soul" it is trivially easy to say that they are constructs except they can be ressurected. If you actually look at the living construct type, the soul part has nearly nothing to do with it.

So, setting that aside the rest of their traits are just meta-game fudging of their physical nature.

Why does a soul give your flesh golem a CON or make him subject to crits?

It's Bicentennial Man. They're alive...aren't they? Even the gods would probably say yes. Hell, they may even BE repositories for old souls. Who knows how the Eldritch Machine involved "makes personalities."

Excatly right. They are andriods.

That's a LOT of RP hooks beyond what a pure construct race would have.

But none beyond what a pure construct race that has a soul also would have.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

If "strong, silent type" characters in films and novels express themselves through their internal monologues and voice-over narration, why not adopt those conventions? There's nothing wrong with the player of the warforged reacting to their environment not with action or dialogue but with narration - and it would be interesting, as another player, to get a glimpse into the warforged character's head without being able to react to it directly.

 

[Felon]

The one thing I got out of my experience with D&D Online was a newfound appreciation for warforged. They look cool, and healing with arcane magic instead of divine opens up some interesting character builds.