[Eberron] Why I like Warforged

[frankthedm]

Despite the long abdomen, the kreen never stroke me as being Large (ie, horse-sized). I always drew them Medium (but with the classic Dark Sun Brom/Baxa shape).

Picks up beloved 2e Dark*Sun box set.

7 feet tall at the shoulder and 48 inches longer than they are tall sounds like they are in large-town.

 

[Staffan]

In 2e, thri-kreen were considered somewhere between Medium and Large. They took up space as a large creature (assuming you bothered with that kind of thing), and took damage as one, but given that their torso and arms were only slightly larger than a human they were considered Medium when it came to weapon use. So, sort of the antithesis of the 3e Powerful Build ability.

 

[Gez]

To a lesser degree, I think a changeling would be a fascinating character race to play. The changeling's ability to shift identity (especially physically) raises all sorts of interesting questions that one can explore in the game. Just the ability to shift gender, for example, opens up some very interesting options. Just as warforged are intellectually and philosophically challenging to play, changelings would be too.

This search for identity is at the core of each of Eberron's new race.

Warforged: Man or Machine?
Shifter: Man or Beast?
Kalashtar: Man or Alien Entity?

Changelings are the ultimate identity crisis.

 

[Mallus]

While surely the tendency is there, I have to question the absolute statement. It carries with it the base assumption that the human mind is incapable of grokking that which is unlike itself. Humans have, time and again, come to understand that which started out as inscruitable.

Orson Scott Card addresses this somewhat in the Ender's Game series....snip....

I'll see your Card and raise you Stanislaw Lem, specifically, his novel Solaris.

Lem makes the exact opposite point. When confronted with something truly alien, like the intelligent planet-covering ocean on the planet Solaris, the human characters can only see, quite literally, the contents of their own heads.

Both Solaris and Speaker for the Dead are terrific books, but I'm far more persuaded by the philosophical position taken by the former.

Card rather questions whether anything in the universe is really varelse. He suggests that the human mind is pretty darned flexible and imaginative, and can comprehend very different ideas if given a chance.

Is that really what Card is saying in Speaker and Xenocide? In the metaphysical system that underpins the Ender universe --which is actually its physics, too, come to think of it-- every intelligent being has the same sort of soul, which originates from the same place outside the physical universe. Which are all interconnected. As is all base matter. By philotes, I think...

Anyway, I didn't take the later Ender cycle novels to be a paean to human intellect and imagination, more of the story of humanity's essentially religious tutelage at the hands of the some space bugs and wacky pig-tree aliens.

And note, while Card wrote about some truly alien life-forms, like the descolada, he didn't try to write any chapters from its perspective. His alien characters were human enough to function as characters, despite the relative oddity of their life-cycles.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Even the designers think that way sadly. Every instance of multi arms leads to a butt load of attacks, favoring sneak attack built characters.

Thri-kreen couldn't even be rogues in 2e. I don't like level limits, but race-based class restrictions don't bother me. It was a big part of thri-kreen flavor that they could not be arcane spellcasters.

What never sat well with me is that Thri -Kreen are Large, [long] creatures from their shape in 2e, but were made medium with a shrunken abdomen for 3e.

The balancing methods for the kreen in 2e are rarely emulated in 3e out of irrational fear of it being 'unfun'.

Some of the 2e balancing methods sucked, actually. I hated the inability to use Strength to modify the natural attacks. I understand why, though; thri-kreen are probably broken if you don't use point buy Also there were issues with AC and level adjustment. In 2e, they tried to make the thri-kreen a "level adjustment +0 race" before the concept of LA was invented, and it was guaranteed to end in a balance failure. I'm glad thri-kreen require LA to play now.

Anyway, I would say medium-size makes more sense. They're eleven feet long, but it's not a straight line. They bend. A snake "should" also be bigger in DnD rules, but they coil up, so they're treated as smaller. Thri-kreen "bend", so they're smaller.

 

[sckeener]

The biggest issue with Thri-Kreen is the level adjustment. When you get whacked for an extra three levels before you even start, it makes it really difficult to add Thri-Kreen into a new party. Plus, because of the LA, Thri-Kreen are mechanically weaker. The beef with TK isn't the lack of rp oportunities, more the difficulty in actually getting them into play.

And that is why I dislike warforged. I see no reason for their existance. Why go to all the bother of creating a race that is the same LA as a human? I find Warforge to be gimped.

 

[I'm A Banana]

This search for identity is at the core of each of Eberron's new race.

Probably why I do'nt grok their appeal very much. I'm not into much internal conflict in D&D characters. Make that conflict EXTERNAL, and give me a monster, and now we're rollin' dice. A half-elf doesn't have an identity crisis unless elven nazi's are destroying humans.

Call it my Planescape-inspired bias. If there's a philosophical cunnundrum, I want to see something with flesh and blood forcing the issue, not just nebulous speculation on if's, and's, and butts. LOL BUTTS.

 

[Stone Dog]

A half-elf doesn't have an identity crisis unless elven nazi's are destroying humans.

Ummm... what? Seriously now, through most of history people who are half one "race" and half another... or even sometimes have parents from different nations have to deal with identity issues both internal and external. And that is just humans blending with humans, let alone humans blending with those pointy eared frea.... I mean elves.

Warforged can be completely confident in who they are and what they are meant to do in life, just alot of them aren't. Regardless of their internal feelings about themselves, they do have to deal with external conflict... and sometimes that monster is a mob of anti-warforged hysteria out to sperate yourvital components from each other. Here are some dice.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Ummm... what? Seriously now, through most of history people who are half one "race" and half another... or even sometimes have parents from different nations have to deal with identity issues both internal and external.

For my milage, the external ones can make some good games.

The internal ones bore me to tears. "Wah wah wah I'm a robot no one understands me!"

The fact that it's REAL and it's HAPPENED TO PEOPLE doesn't detract from the fact that, for me (and maybe only for me) it's dull to have an in-character identity crisis. Your status as a beast-person shouldn't give you any more trouble than a druid, your status as a construct-person or alien-person is not really more troublesome than what a cleric, paladin, or monk faces, philosophically, and "not fitting in" is something that any other PC can do without the need for a special race for not fitting in. The warforged conflict between "instrument of war" and "autonomous individual" is something that any human fighter or dwarven berserker can have.

In any scenario, I don't like characters who cry about being different. I like characters who *do* something about being different. There is no warforged identity crisis unless the warforged's actions, words, and choices speak to it, unless the choices made in defining their identity make them allies and enemies, unless it's evident in their role. A pistol that appears in the first act better be used by the fourth -- I won't touch your internal conflict unless you make use of it externally.

Yes, you can have warforged characters that don't have an identity crisis, but it seems that part of the reason a lot of people have to play these new races is specifically because of the idenitity crisis. Which is fine, but don't just say "I'm misunderstood..." Go out and BE misunderstood!

Warforged can be completely confident in who they are and what they are meant to do in life, just alot of them aren't. Regardless of their internal feelings about themselves, they do have to deal with external conflict... and sometimes that monster is a mob of anti-warforged hysteria out to sperate yourvital components from each other. Here are some dice.

Right. My not-comprehending of this appeal is that (a) any human can have these issues, especially in a fantasy land like D&D provides for, and (b) what your character feels about himself makes me sleepy. I didn't ask what he *thought*. I ask what he *did*. Actions will speak much, much louder than words, and they don't hog the spotlight as much because actions allow reactions.

 

[GSHamster]

As a random recommendation, if you're interested in unique aliens, try reading some stuff by Julie Czernada. She's a decent author, and she's a biologist by training. So her aliens are driven far more by their biology than by intellectual ideals. It's an interesting way of looking at things.

As to the topic at hand, "humans in funny skins" is a little too restrictive. Warforged are creatures who have a fundamentally different life cycle than we do, and that is very neat. And it is something that could stand to be explored in more detail.

As well, think about elves. How many people do you know who play elves as immortal or extremely long-lived, the way they are shown in fiction? How often does the "immortalness" actually make a difference in what a character chooses to do?