Echoes of Thunder, Exponential damage

[Nifft]

Echoes of Thunder
Benefit: When you hit with any thunder attack
power, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls until the
end of your next turn. The bonus increases to +2 at
11th level and +3 at 21st level.

Any/each ambiguity. The power isn't necessarily applied for each hit of a thunder attack.

You could read the power as: if there exists a hit with a thunder attack power, you get a +1 bonus to (etc.).

So, you only need to check if you've hit with any given thunder attack power once per power -- even if the thunder attack power could hit multiple times.

Cheers, -- N

 

[abyssaldeath]

Its possible its a legacy of 3e that people (like myself) assume are in the rules somewhere. I believe there is a rule, but it could simply be remnants of the older system.

I just checked the 3e SRD and it is indeed a rule in 3e. That explains a lot. I have forgotten all of the 3e rules in favor of the 4e rules. There does seem to be a lot of people converting to the 4e system recently so that probably why the "same source" rule is being brought up so much recently.

 

[borg286]

This discussion has been most enlightening.
I agree that both interpretations (at least 1 attack hits for a given power, for each hit add the cumulative damage bonus) and roll the single damage roll. Both interpretations lead to linear damage boost which is comforting.

On the other hand the damage boost is quadratic with the number of attacks (not attack rolls for a given power, but isolated attacks). Thankfully getting more attacks than 1/round is difficult but not impossible.

The feycharger seems to get the most attacks/round. Getting at most 6 / round all encounter, once/day and only at epic. Hopefully WotC will continue making more attacks difficult to achieve.

 

[Sebby]

I asked CS about this very thing.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]CS Evan's response was:

[FONT=&quot]

So it's just a good feat, not an absurdly good feat.
[/FONT]

I too have asked CS about this. The answer is also from Evan T. The short of it is:

• The damage bonus is triggered by the hit and applies immediately on the damage roll;
• The bonus is gained only once per single use of a thunder power, even if it hits more than one target;
• The bonus damage is cumulative over two or more uses of thunder attack powers.

Here is the detailed communication with CS:

Hi,

I have a few questions about the feat "Echoes of Thunder"
(PH2, p.184):

ECHOES OF THUNDER
Heroic Tier
Benefit: When you hit with any thunder attack power, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls until the end of your next turn. The bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and +3 at 21st level.

1) Does the damage bonus apply immediately, i.e. does it apply to the damage roll of the attack that triggers it, or does it applies only to subsequent attacks?

I think it applies as soon as the thunder attack hits and increases the damage of this attack, as it looks like the effect of an immediate action power that's triggered by a hit, but I'm not sure that this logic applies to feats.

[Evan T] Yes, the bonus to the damage roll is effective immediately, which means that you get it for the same attack that you just 'hit' with.

2) The damage bonus is untyped, so am I correct in assuming that it stacks with itself, if I hit with more than one thunder attack during my turn?

Example (below 11th level): I use Booming Blade and hit an enemy (I now have a +1 damage bonus). In the same turn, I use an action point to attack again with Booming Blade and I also hit. Do I now have a +2 damage bonus?

[Evan T] Yes, this damage bonus is untyped so it stacks.

3) For a single use of a thunder attack power that hits more than one creature, Thunder Wave for example, do I get the damage bonus for each target hit or do I get it only once, as long as I hit at least one target?

Example (below 11th level): I use Thunder Wave and hit 3 targets. What's my damage bonus? +1 or +3?

[Evan T] No, the power only cares if you hit -with the power-. It does not matter how many times you hit with the power. If you hit multiple enemies with a power, you'd still only get +1.

Thank you for your help,

(signature)

[Evan T] Please write us back if I can do anything else for you. Have a great day!

Evan T.
Online Response Crew
Wizards of the Coast

 

[borg286]

I just checked the 3e SRD and it is indeed a rule in 3e. That explains a lot. I have forgotten all of the 3e rules in favor of the 4e rules. There does seem to be a lot of people converting to the 4e system recently so that probably why the "same source" rule is being brought up so much recently.

PHB 3.5 p. 305