ECL +1 race w/ SR?

[James McMurray]

Bariaur, Manual of the Planes. Spell Resistance equal to 10 + character level.

And thanks after the fact as well!

Re: Gith

Githyanki have to be worth at least +2 due to unbalanced stats, SR, and spell-like abilities.

Githzerai are definitely strong for +2 due to the same factors, and the addition of Inertial armor. They don't get as many powers, but the inertial armor more than makes up for that.

 

[Thanee]

Sorry, I was talking about the githyanki, definately not worth +2, not even really worth a full +1 either imo.

Not full +1? Who's smoking here!?

They have +2 to two physical stats and a -2 to a mental only (which tend to be less important, unless you specifically play a spellcaster with that as a caster ability). They get huge spell-like abilities, Dimension Door, Telekinesis, Plane Shift later. Ok, the Spell Resistance is actually only a minor benefit, but still.

They might not be on the strong side for +2, but they definitely are far more than +1!

Bye
Thanee

 

[AuraSeer]

These are worth +2 ecl according to wizards? someone has been smoking something a bit too strong I'm afraid ;/

By "someone" do you mean yourself? Perhaps you need to put down the crack pipe.

Githyanki have up stats in Dex and Con, which are useful to every class. The Wis down stat is ignorable (except by monks and dedicated divine casters). Blur gives 20% miss chance, plus immunity to sneak attacks, usable basically every combat. Dimension door is a free ticket out of any grapple.

Plane shift as a SLA is nearly worth a +1 ECL all by itself. It makes a really nasty instakill spell when used offensively. (Send that pesky troll to the Elemental Plane of Fire.) As a utility transport spell, it's a near-foolproof escape from any dangerous situation, for the entire party at once.

A melee-type would give up his favorite testicle for some of these powers. In what universe is the race "not even really worth a full +1" ?

 

[Brekki]

Bariaurs have 3 racial hd and a +2 LA for total ECL of +5 since Book of Exalted Deeds.

 

[Camarath]

In Dangerous Denizens: The Monsters of Tellene, a WotC Official Licensed Product from Kenzer and Company, there is an ECL +0 race called Half-Githzerai. It has SR 2 + character level (as well as Medium, Speed 30ft, +2 Wis -2 Con, Outsider Blood, and Favored Class: Monk).

 

[James McMurray]

Bariaurs have 3 racial hd and a +2 LA for total ECL of +5 since Book of Exalted Deeds.

Doh! Back to the drawing board.

Anyone else know of a race in either Dragon Magazine or a WotC written book?

 

[3d6]

Bariaurs have 3 racial hd and a +2 LA for total ECL of +5 since Book of Exalted Deeds.

That's dumb. Why on earth would the authors do that?

 

[Scion]

Not full +1? Who's smoking here!?

They have +2 to two physical stats and a -2 to a mental only (which tend to be less important, unless you specifically play a spellcaster with that as a caster ability). They get huge spell-like abilities, Dimension Door, Telekinesis, Plane Shift later. Ok, the Spell Resistance is actually only a minor benefit, but still.

They might not be on the strong side for +2, but they definitely are far more than +1!

Bye
Thanee

Hate it when the message board eats posts

will try to rehash briefly what I said, if it seems a bit terse its only from having to redue it multiple times

I'll try a brief acid test.
Human
Barbarian 8
8d12 + 8xcon mod (avg 57.5 + 8xcon)
BAB +8
F+6 R+2 W+2
Skills 55 + 8xint mod
Fast movement, illiteracy, Uncanny dodge, Improved uncanny dodge, Trap sense +2, Damage reduction 1/—, Rage 3/day

Bonus feat, favored class any, +1 to a stat

Githyanki (+2)
Barb 6
6d12 + 6xcon mod (avg 44.5 +6 from extra con +6xcon mod)
BAB +6
F+5 R+2 W+2
Skills 36 + 6xint mod
Fast movement, illiteracy, rage 1/day, Uncanny dodge, Rage 2/day
Improved uncanny dodge, Trap sense +2

+2 dex, +2 con, -2 wisdom
60 foot darkvision
daze and mage hand 3/day
at 3rd level blur 3/day
at 6th level dimension door 3/day
**at 9th level telekinesis 3/day and plane shift 1/day** wont have for 3 more levels
spell resistance 5 + level = 11 currently
favored class fighter

I purposely picked the level difference where they are about the closest they come in power, and in my estimation the human barb still wins out hands down just based on these few numbers. If I had used a dwarf instead the gith would look even worse. If I had used a spellcaster of some kind the difference would have been even more extreme.

This is why imo they just arent worth the +2, most of the time the numbers above are even worse (especially at low levels like one and at the high end levels). The SR is negligable most of the time (CR 8 creatures that cast usually have a caster level of 8 or higher, so they have to roll a 3 or better, 1 or better if they have spell penetration or an item that does something similar). The extra abilities are nice but fluffy, you could buy similar items to help you out or have other party members cast them for you.

All in all if this isnt convincing check out the level 3 barb human vs level 1 barb gith, and the level 20 barb human vs 18 gith. It just isnt pretty the beanies are very nice and shiny, but not worth what is given up.

 

[Scion]

Blur gives 20% miss chance, plus immunity to sneak attacks, usable basically every combat. Dimension door is a free ticket out of any grapple.

Reproduceable with magic items. Fairly easily in fact, and at a much lesser cost than 2 levels as well. The stat boosts add up to being only +2 difference, which is also very cheap.

Plane shift as a SLA is nearly worth a +1 ECL all by itself. It makes a really nasty instakill spell when used offensively. (Send that pesky troll to the Elemental Plane of Fire.) As a utility transport spell, it's a near-foolproof escape from any dangerous situation, for the entire party at once.

So you are saying that an 11th level character has a once per day ability that can kill a CR 5 guy if he doesnt make the save? oohh.. wow.. that was worth a full level Not to be terribly sarcastic, but useing your cool ability to get rid of something that isnt a threat doesnt make it an all powerful ability.

And if you are all holding hands in this bad situation, you will randomly appear on this other plane somewhere, once per day. Hope you dont run into more trouble. It'd be easier to have your cleric cast it, or have your mage teleport, or buy an item.. rinse repeat reuse. It just isnt worth a full ecl.

There are a ton of save or dies for people with low will saves, and they are fairly easy to get. Its a nice little helper, but worth that much of a cost? nah

I like the race, but at best it'd be +1. Personally I'd give it a few more powers at least in order to move them up to the right place.

 

[AuraSeer]

Reproduceable with magic items. Fairly easily in fact, and at a much lesser cost than 2 levels as well. The stat boosts add up to being only +2 difference, which is also very cheap.

Say what? A racial ability is far more valuable than the equivalent item.They are unremovable and invulnerable, and will still be working after when all the magic has been toasted by disjunction. The stat boosts stack with everything, the importance of which seems to have escaped you.

So you are saying that an 11th level character has a once per day ability that can kill a CR 5 guy if he doesnt make the save?

Now you are intentionally ignoring the point.
The ability can kill anything that fails the Will save, unless it has its own plane shift. Dragons, outsiders, anything alive-- send it to the Negative Material Plane and it's done for. For powerful undead, use the Positive Material instead. Constructs and other never-alive things can be junked on Elemental Fire or any of the various evil planes.

You are either taking the piss or simply not paying attention.