ECL of Monsters of Fearun: Fey'ri

[EOL]

A character in a campaign I'm running, which is currently at level 4 want's to play a Fey'ri. The question is what should the ECL be?

The big question is whether the ECL varies based on the abilities he takes. The Fey'ri get the choice of 4 of 11 abilities

Charm Person
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
DR 10/+1
Darkness
Detect Thoughts
Dimension Door
Enervation
Fire Resistance 10
Suggestion
+2 Racial Bonus saves against Electricity
+2 Racial Bonus saves against poison

Each of the spell-like abilities are usable once/day. The DR seems much more powerful than everything else on the list. I'm inclined to go with +3 ECL, but if he chooses DR I almost feel like it should be +4. Stat wise they are +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con.

Opinions appreciated.

 

[Archer]

Enervation and dimension door aren't exactly what I would consider weak abilities either. Combine those with DR and fire resistance and you become pretty powerful. Fire tends to be the most common elemental damage type.

I'd say ECL 4 at a minimum myself. The character is essentially invincible in any adventure for characters up to 5th level and enervation is a death spell with no save for most obstacles at those CR.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Enervation and dimension door aren't exactly what I would consider weak abilities either. Combine those with DR and fire resistance and you become pretty powerful. Fire tends to be the most common elemental damage type.

I'd say ECL 4 at a minimum myself. The character is essentially invincible in any adventure for characters up to 5th level and enervation is a death spell with no save for most obstacles at those CR.

I did a quick survey of the CR 5 creatures in the Monster Manual and found the average number of Hit Dice to be around 6.9, quite safe from enervation. In fact, the average kill rate (considering the touch attack and d4 roll) is only 3.6%!

Personally, I'd use ECL +3.

 

[Darkness]

FRCS says +2 - with which I agree; half-fiends are much more powerful than Fey'ri.

And regarding DR: It can be a problem at low levels, but at medium and high levels, it'll usually be relatively meaningless (since it can be overcome by +1 weapons or equivalent). So personally, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[CRGreathouse]

FRCS says +2 - with which I agree; half-fiends are much more powerful than Fey'ri.

And regarding DR: It can be a problem at low levels, but at medium and high levels, it'll usually be relatively meaningless (since it can be overcome by +1 weapons or equivalent). So personally, I wouldn't worry about it.

I certainly agree about the DR - the only time it matters is when it's used to make up for the fact that the creature has almost no hit points compared to its non-ECL'd companions.

As for final ECL, I defer to your judgement - I've never used a fey'ri in play, so my experiences are limited. When I said ECL +3, it was more of a reaction to ECL +4 than a final call.

 

[EOL]

+3 ECL feels about right but with those variable abilties I wonder if it +3 might not be one size fits all. The most powerful combination of four abilties in my opinion would be:

DR 10/+1
Fire Resistance 10
Enervation
Dimension Door

While the weakest four might be:

+2 Poison Saves
+2 Electrical Saves
Charm Person
Detect Thoughts

The latter seems closer to +2 ECL than +3, and even the first four don't seem overpowered when compared to the +2 ECL Drow with their SR.

 

[MythandLore]

FRCS says +2 - with which I agree; half-fiends are much more powerful than Fey'ri.

And regarding DR: It can be a problem at low levels, but at medium and high levels, it'll usually be relatively meaningless (since it can be overcome by +1 weapons or equivalent). So personally, I wouldn't worry about it.

Mr. "Darkness" Smartypants, your just too good.
I totaly agree with you.

 

[Archer]

Comparing Fey'ri - ECL 2 vs Half-Fiend ECL 5

Fey'ri get all their spell like abilities right away while half fiends get them gradually. Fiends get poison, about the equivalent of enervation at ECL 12. Fey'ri get enervation at ECL 3.

Half fiends have +1 natural armor

Fey'ri have DR, Fiends have more resistances at higher values.

Fiends have considerably better ability scores.

Fey'ri always fly, fiends 50% chance

Fey'ri can change shape at will.

Fiends get some natural attacks that don't amount to much.

Fey'ri are a good buy at 2 ECL. The weakest 4 abilities amount to almost nothing, the strongest 4 are pretty strong. There are a lot of things that don't bypass DR but they eventually do more than 10 damage on average so they will take their toll eventually. They are definitely far better than the standard tiefling.

 

[Roland Delacroix]

He forgot to mention however, that they can Fly (40' poor) and though they look demonic they can change their shape at will to any humanoid form. On top of that they get the elven traits of sleep immunity (on top of Outsider immunities), +2 Will save vs enchantments, and LowLight Vision (on top of Outsider Darkvision). They also get +2 to Bluff, Hide, Listen, Search and Spot checks.

They are pretty tough and have a host of abilities and immunities. Still, only one HD. I'd try it at ECL +4 and if he sucks compared to everyone else move it down to ECL +3. They ECL +2 if necessary, but i dont think it will be. Its easier to give your players a level than take one away.

 

[hammymchamham]

+0