Sanackranib
First Post
Are the races with an ECL over +1 really worth it in your opinon?
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ECL Races
- Thread starter Sanackranib
- Start date
That's a rather vague question. Considering that you actually have to ask it, you probably don't consider them worth the effort mechanically to take as a PC race. From a purely 'tactical min-maxing standard', I would probably have to agree that they are not really worth it, being slightly under par in comparison to other base level races.
It depends on what you do consider 'worth it'. The mechanical bonuses, balancing your PC against the other party members, or the sheer fun of roleplaying something exotic and/or unique. What factors are you actually asking about?
Playing mostly in Dark Sun, there are several races that are ECL +2 and higher. Since both my former group and my newest group both understand the basic drawbacks to the ECL system, and since those drawbacks have not yet disuaded one person from picking a cool thri-kreen or hulking half-giant, I guess you could argue against what is worth it in the end: numbers, or a good time spent roleplaying.
It depends on what you do consider 'worth it'. The mechanical bonuses, balancing your PC against the other party members, or the sheer fun of roleplaying something exotic and/or unique. What factors are you actually asking about?
Playing mostly in Dark Sun, there are several races that are ECL +2 and higher. Since both my former group and my newest group both understand the basic drawbacks to the ECL system, and since those drawbacks have not yet disuaded one person from picking a cool thri-kreen or hulking half-giant, I guess you could argue against what is worth it in the end: numbers, or a good time spent roleplaying.
Dark Jezter
First Post
Using a race any higher than ECL +1 can be crippling to spellcasting classes, but it dosen't hurt other classes (rogues, bards, warrior types) quite as badly.
When my Forgotten Realms campaign started last spring, we had two people who wanted to play drow characters (ECL +2). One of the drow players chose to be a cleric, while the other chose to be a bard/fighter. I started the campaign off at level 5, meaning that the drow players were each Character Level 3.
By the time the second session was over, the guy who was playing as the drow cleric was very unhappy with the effectiveness of his character. The guy playing the drow bard/fighter, on the other hand, was quite content with his character.
Since then, the drow bard/fighter has proven to be a valued member of the group, using his Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music, crossbow, and Social Skills to great effect. As for the drow cleric, well, let's just say that I was a kind enough DM to let the player scrap his character and create a new cleric using a non-ECL race.
When my Forgotten Realms campaign started last spring, we had two people who wanted to play drow characters (ECL +2). One of the drow players chose to be a cleric, while the other chose to be a bard/fighter. I started the campaign off at level 5, meaning that the drow players were each Character Level 3.
By the time the second session was over, the guy who was playing as the drow cleric was very unhappy with the effectiveness of his character. The guy playing the drow bard/fighter, on the other hand, was quite content with his character.
Since then, the drow bard/fighter has proven to be a valued member of the group, using his Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Music, crossbow, and Social Skills to great effect. As for the drow cleric, well, let's just say that I was a kind enough DM to let the player scrap his character and create a new cleric using a non-ECL race.
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I'd say they can be worth it, and a lot of fun to play. A lot of it does depend on the class you want and how you approach the game.
Though for the most part, taking an ECL race does put a serious dent in a spellcaster's power. Still, I think it can be worth it for the other classes that rely more on combat and skills for their effectiveness.
As an example, right now I'm running a monk character in a party that is very heavy on the fighter-types (we have a paladin, a proto-duelist, and a wannabe mystic theurge) in a 32 point-buy campaign. Everyone is 5th level. I'm running a 2nd level, anthropomorphic tiger (from Savage Species) monk.
From a roleplaying standpoint, it's fun to play a character who's both an exotic curiosity to some of the more "normal" PC's, as well as one who is a sort of naive, fresh-out-of-the-monastery wanderer from WAY out of town. He certainly is memorable. From a mechanical stat point, the tremendous stat bonuses (+4 Str, +6 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Wis) balance out with the loss of 1 HD worth of hit points and the loss of one BAB point. In addition, since the character is effectively a multiclass Monstrous Humanoid/Monk, he gets the boost to his Reflex and Will saves, so they're really nasty. Racial skill bonuses help make up for the hit that he takes to skill points.
The end result is a character with respectable hit points (not as tough as the paladin, but then again who is), a fantastic AC (about 5 points higher than anyone else in the party), excellent mobility (unlike the armored fighters), and a not-too-shabby damage curve.
In the final analysis - ECL's can be worth it. What you want to do is make sure the benefits you get balance out with the hit you take in class features.
Though for the most part, taking an ECL race does put a serious dent in a spellcaster's power. Still, I think it can be worth it for the other classes that rely more on combat and skills for their effectiveness.
As an example, right now I'm running a monk character in a party that is very heavy on the fighter-types (we have a paladin, a proto-duelist, and a wannabe mystic theurge) in a 32 point-buy campaign. Everyone is 5th level. I'm running a 2nd level, anthropomorphic tiger (from Savage Species) monk.
From a roleplaying standpoint, it's fun to play a character who's both an exotic curiosity to some of the more "normal" PC's, as well as one who is a sort of naive, fresh-out-of-the-monastery wanderer from WAY out of town. He certainly is memorable. From a mechanical stat point, the tremendous stat bonuses (+4 Str, +6 Dex, +2 Con, +4 Wis) balance out with the loss of 1 HD worth of hit points and the loss of one BAB point. In addition, since the character is effectively a multiclass Monstrous Humanoid/Monk, he gets the boost to his Reflex and Will saves, so they're really nasty. Racial skill bonuses help make up for the hit that he takes to skill points.
The end result is a character with respectable hit points (not as tough as the paladin, but then again who is), a fantastic AC (about 5 points higher than anyone else in the party), excellent mobility (unlike the armored fighters), and a not-too-shabby damage curve.
In the final analysis - ECL's can be worth it. What you want to do is make sure the benefits you get balance out with the hit you take in class features.
Wippit Guud
First Post
A lot of it depends on character concept... a half-ogre cleric may take a hit in the spellcasting department, but if you're going for the combat-oriented cleric, it has other benefits... among other things, you get the effects of a permanent, empowered bull strength... and since half-ogres don't take a wisdom hit, you can still have that plenty high as well.
Likewise, any race that gets 'at will' spell-like abilities may find themselves getting a benefit for losing spells are are 1/day.
Likewise, any race that gets 'at will' spell-like abilities may find themselves getting a benefit for losing spells are are 1/day.
Sanackranib
First Post
I think that ECL +1 can definately be worth it. no one in my group has played higher then that with 1 exception of the player who Played a Pevishan (ECL+2) briefly.
In our next game we are starting at level 5. and I intend to play a 1/2 merrow (aquatic ogre) fighter. I will have a lower BAB and 3 fewer feats (4 if another fighter is human) but it allows me to play somthing new. I have played this game for almost 24 years now so somthing new is definately attractive to me. I was just curious if others felt the level(s)
hit was worth it. I guess the responce was about what I expected. worth it to some and not worth it to others.
In our next game we are starting at level 5. and I intend to play a 1/2 merrow (aquatic ogre) fighter. I will have a lower BAB and 3 fewer feats (4 if another fighter is human) but it allows me to play somthing new. I have played this game for almost 24 years now so somthing new is definately attractive to me. I was just curious if others felt the level(s)
hit was worth it. I guess the responce was about what I expected. worth it to some and not worth it to others.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
You can survive an LA of +2 or higher.
However, as soon as your LA is including just a single racial hit dice, most classes become untenable for most races (try making a rogue with any of the humanoids with 1+ racial hit dice). Why? Because racial hit dice are just like taking a crappy class with basically no benefits to doing so.
However, as soon as your LA is including just a single racial hit dice, most classes become untenable for most races (try making a rogue with any of the humanoids with 1+ racial hit dice). Why? Because racial hit dice are just like taking a crappy class with basically no benefits to doing so.
Moe Ronalds
First Post
We once had someone effectively use level adjistment. In a one-shot D&D game, the basic gist of it was that all the characters were participating in the mage-duel tourney at a mage-fair.
One of the characters chose to play a Drow Wizard. Proved to be a truly annoying experience for those opposing him.
One of the characters chose to play a Drow Wizard. Proved to be a truly annoying experience for those opposing him.
Camarath
Pale Master Tarrasque
The strongest ECL 4 character I have ever played had no class levels at all. He was Feral Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale. I can still remember the look on the other players' faces when I pulled out his character sheet. The DM had said that everything in Savage Species was fair game but I don’t think he knew what he was getting himself into. Character's with LAs of higher than +1 can be weaker, stronger, or on par with normal characters depending on how they are used.
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