ECLs, LAs, and Bloodlines

[Three_Haligonians]

Is this correct:

A 14th level sorcorer with a major bloodline (From UA) is a 14th level character (in regards to feats, skill points, ability increases, etc.) an LA of +3 therefore has an ECL of 17 (for experience purposes).

Did I get it right?

Thanks for your help

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Necrohazard]

Effective Character Level (ECL) is used not only for experience, but it also determins how much equipment that character should have.

 

[Li Shenron]

Is this correct:

A 14th level sorcorer with a major bloodline (From UA) is a 14th level character (in regards to feats, skill points, ability increases, etc.) an LA of +3 therefore has an ECL of 17 (for experience purposes).

Did I get it right?

Basically.

Assuming he's effectively taken the 3 bloodline levels at the intended time (it's not a must but it's largely convenient), and that he has 14 levels of sorcerer, he is treated as a 17th level character for the following purposes:

- experience
- caster level
- max skill ranks
- level dependent abilities (although it is unclear which ones really)

He is still a 14th level Sorcerer for the purpose of spell known and spells per day, BAB, HD, skill points and ST.

It is instead pretty unclear if he has feats and ability increases as a 14th lv char (since he has 14 HD and those are normally based on HD) or as a 17th lv char (since bloodline levels are not exactly a LA but real levels).

I am not sure what I would choose as a DM... it depends on the other choice of which level-dependent abilities are improved and which not. All the DCs for spell-like/supernatural/etc abilities are definitely increased, but what about Familiars? What about level-based stuff such as Turn Undead, Lay on Hands, Bardic Music and Animal Empathy? As a guideline I'd say that you use 17 whenever "level" enters calculation (familiar abilities, turn undead check, lay on hands amount, bardic music per day) but you won't get obviously the improvement written on the class table (e.g. wild shape or rage uses per day).

 

[Three_Haligonians]

I am not sure what I would choose as a DM... it depends on the other choice of which level-dependent abilities are improved and which not. All the DCs for spell-like/supernatural/etc abilities are definitely increased, but what about Familiars? What about level-based stuff such as Turn Undead, Lay on Hands, Bardic Music and Animal Empathy? As a guideline I'd say that you use 17 whenever "level" enters calculation (familiar abilities, turn undead check, lay on hands amount, bardic music per day) but you won't get obviously the improvement written on the class table (e.g. wild shape or rage uses per day).

Would you include determining the maximum level for a cohort in this list as well?

 

[hobgoblin]

i dont know that major blodline is but from what i understand ecl is just a kind of limiter on growth so that as your race or similar is more powerful then the norm you get a slower development and therefor a higher effective exp level when it comes to exp needed to grow. ecl dont make you start out as a third level char, you just gain exp as if you where a third level char.

a ecl of +3 on a first level char makes him gain exp from defeated monsters and other sources as if he was a 4th level char. he allso must reach the 5th level requirement before he become as second level char (but he starts to count from 4th level so that means collecting 4000 exp, not 10000).

saves are not modified, skill ranks are not modified, but starting gear is. he is allso seen as a 4th level char when calculating a fitting encounter level for the group.

allso, is caster level character level based or class level based? do a 3/1 cleric/wizard have a caster level of 4?

 

[Li Shenron]

Would you include determining the maximum level for a cohort in this list as well?

Actually IIRC that would depend on ECL, so I think I would even allow LA to count. Hence yes, I'd allow bloodline levels to count

edit: it's possible that I remember wrong... I'd still allow it in both cases anyway, I think it's fair

 

[Li Shenron]

allso, is caster level character level based or class level based? do a 3/1 cleric/wizard have a caster level of 4?

Caster level is based to class level, in core classes it's either equal (wiz, sor, dru, cle, brd) or half (pal, ran). They don't stack.

However each of the Bloodline levels specifically grants a caster level increase in ALL your spellcasting classes, just like that level was taken in that class (so +1 or +1/2).

For example, if you were a Sorcerer 6 / Paladin 5 with a minor bloodline, at this level you would have CL 6 as a Sorcerer and CL 2 as a Paladin. Next level (12th) you get the bloodline level and you raise to CL 7 as a Sorcerer and CL 3 as a Paladin.

 

[hobgoblin]

thanks for clearing that up