Ecology of the Dragonborn up

[Jürgen Hubert]

I could see that in a strong Empire, where the law and order is kept up, but not in a PoL. Too easy to use each other as scapegoats there. And people are apt to band together in clans and tribes, excluding other humans - why would they tolerate non-humans much?

Given how dangerous the world at large is, I'd assume that communities that insist on kicking out all elves, dwarves, halflings, dragonborn etc. tend to have weakened defenses and are much more likely to die when the next orc horde comes along.

Jews in medieval Europe, despite being strongly disliked by the majority population, were tolerated because they were useful to the communities they lived in, mostly through financial services that Christians were forbidden from providing. Nonhuman communities in human cities could likewise be tolerated because their very presence is useful for the communities.

• Kick out the dragonborn? Those used to be the strongest defenders of your community when the orcs came visiting in their annual spring plunder drive.
• Kick out the dwarves? Forget about your nobles prancing around in plate mail - shoddy chain mail is the best the local human smiths can do.
• Kick out the eladrins? Say goodbye to your suppliers of high-end magic.
• Kick out the elves? Well, don't complain if some forest monster eats your lumberjacks, then.
• Kick out the halflings? Why, sure! We don't trade anything along the river, after all. Right?
• Kick out the tieflings? Are you mad? Haven't you heard of <former village X> which was cursed by other tieflings when they were driven out of town? They got razed by the orcs during their annual spring plunder drive - a sure sign of a curse! No, it's better to keep them where we can keep an eye on them...

Apart from these services, these nonhuman members of a community also serve as a vital source of news. A human-only community will only get news from other human community - while a mixed community will receive news from all the other communities in the region as well. And that's vital - not just for when the orcs arrive during their annual spring plunder drive, but also for all kinds of other disasters and wars. Temporary or even permanent alliances with those communities will be much easier to establish if the nonhumans of your community can act as mediators.

Frankly, I think you are making all this harder than it has to be. You seem to start with a default assumption that humans in general must be so bigoted to reject nonhumans wanting to live in their communities even when permitting it would be of tremendous benefit to themselves both economically and in terms of survival. While some human towns like this exist, I'd say it is at least equally likely that other towns will ebrace other races to some degree. After all, towns exist for the purpose of facilitating trade, and the presence of nonhumans certainly helps trade.

 

[Mallus]

"Humans in a rubber suit" is not really an interesting concept.

This is why you also make the 'humans in a rubber suit' act like Romans...

It seems to me that inventing wholly alien modes of cognition and the cultures they spawn is beyond the scope of a fantasy RPG. Or of fantasy/SF literature, for that matter. And if you did somehow succeed in characterizing the truly alien, the result would be a character nobody could relate to, thus of limited utility as a character and usable only as a foil or plot device.

In short, count me as a fan of rubber suit brigade. What they lack in novelty, they more than make up for in being doable.

 

[lutecius]

So the dragonborn adventurers know who to flirt with in the tavern between adventures? To protect the elves' androgyny niche? To forestall endless flame wars over whether a particular illustration depicts a male or female? Because most D&D players are human, and it's a convenient and hardwired visual shortcut for "female" without having to go "wait, is it the males or females that have the wavy crest?"

Just like i said, dragonboobs are less interesting. Even if you are actually going to play out the whole dragonflirt thing that shouldn't be a problem, unless your dm describes women as humans with boobs.
But really, I thought the point of db was to play a scary monster, not hook up in taverns. To me, the idea ranges from mildly grotesque to plain icky, but whatever floats your boat...

One could do worse than be a liker of boobies.

...on a dragon. Again, they didn't disturb me so much before I realized some people actually liked them.

 

[Fenes]

• Kick out the dragonborn? Those used to be the strongest defenders of your community when the orcs came visiting in their annual spring plunder drive.
• Kick out the dwarves? Forget about your nobles prancing around in plate mail - shoddy chain mail is the best the local human smiths can do.
• Kick out the eladrins? Say goodbye to your suppliers of high-end magic.
• Kick out the elves? Well, don't complain if some forest monster eats your lumberjacks, then.
• Kick out the halflings? Why, sure! We don't trade anything along the river, after all. Right?
• Kick out the tieflings? Are you mad? Haven't you heard of <former village X> which was cursed by other tieflings when they were driven out of town? They got razed by the orcs during their annual spring plunder drive - a sure sign of a curse! No, it's better to keep them where we can keep an eye on them...

I don't play in a setting where humans are stupid apes, unable to craft, fight, or learn any art.
Humans make platemail. Humans fight as well as lizards. Humans have wizards just like eladrin - and as powerful. Humans have foresters too, and they battle more with elves trying to hog the forest for themselves, than with forest monsters. Humans can steer riverboats as well. And humans burn witches who curse villages.

And from the setting novels I read, humans are generally distrustful of the other races, and generally have conflicts - the "Human settlers clash with elven forest village" is a clichee plot.

 

[The Little Raven]

Again, they didn't disturb me so much before I realized some people actually liked them.

Call me shallow, but flat-chested dragonborn chickadees don't do it for me. I like my women with curves, no matter what race they are.

 

[Wormwood]

Call me shallow . . .

You're shallow.

But so am I, and for the same reason.

 

[I'm A Banana]

scots don't make me run and shout "oh my god, they wear kilts and want to kill us all!".

Obviously then, you will be the first to fall when the scots hulk out and start murdering everyone within arm's reach.

it's only a matter of time....



More about the "monstrousness" of the Dragonborn, I would definately argue that in a high fantasy world (of which D&D 4e certainly is) "lookin' freaky" isn't any sort of barrier to anything. Humans in such a world would have a necessarily more accepting bent than historical humans here, because campaigns of racial cleansing and the like are that much more difficult to carry out against 90% of the world, and because those races come in handy.

A lower fantasy world might be freaked out of dragonborn (and even halflings would give pause), but D&D has never been a low fantasy setting, so I wouldn't ask it to try and provide that to me out of the box.

Still, I think the idea that all the PC races are harmonius is exceptionally boring, and I really regret that it has been played up so much in the fluff. You can get along and still have conflict, which is something this article doesn't really consider, because the dragonborn don't have any interesting conflicts that might make for a fun night of gaming when used as the seed for a character or an adventure.

Again, they didn't disturb me so much before I realized some people actually liked them.

I am squicked out beyond belief at some of these comments, and maybe more by those who say they're not enough. I guess we all have our fetishes though, so it's probably a wash.

I mean, I was weirded out when people offered up their Lidda fantasies in 3e, too.

....maybe I just wish people would keep their fantasies to themselves and those loved ones that can help them act it out.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I don't play in a setting where humans are stupid apes, unable to craft, fight, or learn any art.
Humans make platemail. Humans fight as well as lizards. Humans have wizards just like eladrin - and as powerful. Humans have foresters too, and they battle more with elves trying to hog the forest for themselves, than with forest monsters. Humans can steer riverboats as well. And humans burn witches who curse villages.

Sure, humans could do all of those. But could they do all of these as well as the other races?

Dwarves have a mining and smelting infrastructure that is hard to replicate for any race not as obsessive as they are. Dragonborn have innate advantages that make them, all other things being equal, better fighters than humans. Elves have lived in forests for so long that forestry is part of their very culture, and it would take an exceptionally dedicated human to learn everything what is common knowledge among the elves.

In real life and real world history, societies specialize. Some societies are good at producing one kind of trade goods, and they trade it with other societies which are good at other things. I see the same thing going on between humans and the various nonhuman societies. Sure, humans could try to do everything the other societies do - but then they'd end up being "jacks of all trades, and masters of none".

To sum it up: Communities that trade, prosper. Communities that don't, suffer for it. Anything else is implausible - far more implausible than any "the PC races manage to live together without killing each other" scenario.

 

[Drkfathr1]

It just feels made up.

It is! Dragonborn aren't real.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

If all the PC races are not alien, what's their point then? Just some differences in looks, but they think alike, and all live in harmony?

You know, there's an excellent reason why the PC races aren't all that alien, and why they all play as somewhat exaggerated human stereotypes with cosmetic detailing and stat modifiers...

This is a game played by humans! Your characters must be at least somewhat human, or you're unable to engage meaningfully with them. Sure, Dragonborn are scaly and hulkish, and are born from eggs, but they must be people, or you can't play them meaningfully. (I see this thing all the time with SF, by the way; an alien that's too alien to empathize with is not a character, it's either a plot device or a "bug".)

But if you feel that the races, as shown in the PHB, are too dull, you can draw upon the existing background for them, to make them more alien. Take the DBs; one thing mentioned in the "Ecology of Dragonborn" article is that they marry only to procreate, and these pairings end as the young DB is three years old.

How about if love, in the romantic sense, is an emotion alien to Dragonborn? They feel affection for their friends, camaraderie, parental pride of their children, and the heady, lustful passion of mating that inevitably fades; but all the human talk about "eternal love", and "love conquering all obstacles", is just word salad to them?