Edition Wars MCXIII - A matter of Class

[Grimstaff]

Yes, everyone was just waiting for more Edition Wars.
Might I pose the question 1e Druid vs 3e Druid, 1e Illusionist vs 3e Illusionist. Which is kewler in your opinion and why?

 

[Henry]

First of all, Edition Wars, started for their own sake, aren't cool.

Secondly, if the thread stays friendly, it can stay open. If it gets unfriendly, it closes.

 

[Whisper72]

Phaw.... naturally the OD&D version is much better regardless which class, rule, spell or whatever you speak of.... furthermore... such is not an opinion, such is the holy truth... all those who do not think my way is the only way shall burn in the nine hells (according to the old constellation, not that annoying Great Wheel thingy) for all eternity...

Furthermore, it is not an edition WAR, but an edition CRUSADE! (which is why some people like C&C so much... but even that is only a pale imitation of the one true game....) Impeach the infidels!


/end sarcasm

Anyhoo....

 

[Henry]

That said,

For me, the 1E Druid wins, hands down, over the 3E. No other class could get third level spells at THIRD CHARACTER LEVEL, and the breadth of the druid's spells made them almost as good as a hybrid cleric/magic-user. And Gruumsh help the enemy when the Druid starts pulling out summoned allies. Their alignment restrictions made their road a hard one to walk, which was simply fun to play, and the contest at 12th level onward gave the druid an occasional center-stage from time to time.

The 3E druid is perfectly balanced with the other classes, and fun to play, but nothing matched for me the excitement of an AD&D Druid.

 

[Henry]

1E illusionists?

Not bad, and within the realm of 1E, they were weaker than a card-carrying Magic-user, but they had spells a mage just couldn't have, or had at higher level. You had to be creative with those AD&D Illusionists, but they had a charm all their own that specialists don't have to themselves, anymore.

The 3E illusionist is neat, and can now tote Fireballs and walls of force, but as I said, there's something gone from having to be very crafty with your alloted magic, and trick the dickens out of opponents to get by.

 

[EricNoah]

I would love to see someone's attempt at developing separate spell lists for the different specialists. Lists that are "mostly unique" with some overlap as necessary.

 

[the Jester]

Like Henry, I miss the cool 'different-ness' of the illusionist from 1e. I loved the 1e druid, too. Though I overall prefer 3e, in these two cases 1e kicks butt and takes names.

 

[rogueattorney]

With a good player and a good DM, 1e Illusionists could be absolutely killer. Like some of the other 1e classes (particularly the assassin) the effectiveness of the illusionist was often dependent on how the DM adjudicated the class's powers. The key issue was that, by the books, illusionary damage was real damage, psychic damage, if you will. Many, many, many DM's got this wrong, effectively hamstringing some of the illusionist's most potent spells. Also, there was the issue of how and when the DM rolled for saving throws.

The key to the illusionist was creativity. Most magic-user spells had a pretty set result after casting. The illusionist spells, on the other hand, were much more wide-open. In some ways, the illusionist could (appear to) do anything he wanted. Just at first level, Phantasmal Force could move walls, make the floor open up and swallow opponents, change the direction of tunnels, etc. As the illusionist got more powerful, his spells more and more shaped reality, and moved from shadow to substance. It was a very cool, distinct class, and not just a magic-user by another name.

R.A.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I have never understood why clerics and druids from 1e were considered weak classes that no one wanted to play. Other than the guys who always played warriors, EVERYONE seemed to gravitate towards clerics and druids. As was mentioned, 3rd level spells at 3rd level rocked. And since there were only 7 levels of cleric spells, clerics effectively got 9th level spells at 13th level. Sure, they couldn't throw fireballs like a magic user, but they had some cool spells, and could more than hold their own in melee.

Er, where was I? I concur, the 1e druid, hands down was cooler. Maybe not more powerful, considering 3es shapechange, but cooler. Same with the illusionist, though I admit it was a challenge to play.

 

[Particle_Man]

Given 1st ed. Unearthed Arcana, Druids made the first "epic" class (or the second "prestige" class) with the Hierophant Druid (once you get past 15th, you just get better and bette!). You don't have to fight your way up anymore (which was a bit of a drag if you lost), and you get Kewl powers. On the other hand, the feats system allows a lot of fun options with wild shape shape feats in 3rd ed.

And I miss the 1st ed. Illusionist so much. Their different spells were just kewl. I can't even think of a way to get that genie back into the bottle in 3rd ed. unless I take spells away from the spell lists of other casters (hear the Sorceror and Wizard scream bloody murder).

I still want to play a Human Dual Classed 13th Assassin/14th+ Illusionist. One day...