Effects of making all "Class Skills"open?

[satori01]

I want to hear people's opinion on the idea of making all skills available to everybody, eg no cross class skills, and the implications of such a change.

Leaving skill point allotements as they are I dont believe it would particuliarly harm any class. Certainaly it will to an extent bend some of the archtypical nature of the classs in regards to skill limitations, but it will also put more imphasis on class abilities in general.

Sure it will probably result in the "sneaky" straight class fighter, or the Wizard with wilderness lore and ride skills maxed out,(ala Gandalf), or the rogue with huge amounts of knowledge skills,(ala Indiana Jones), or an athletic Sorcerer. Frankly I'm fine with that as it reduces the need to multi class for skill point and character definition reasons, and cuts down on class skill substitutions.

The biggest consquences I see from this idea is obviously certain clerical domain powers will need to be reworked,(those that grant skills), some FR feats would be made redundant,( I dont play there so np on that front), and the biggie is Prestige Class requirements will need to be altered in many case to perserve the "not before 5th level" general rule.

Even this aspect I dont feel will pose to much of a problem as bab requirements or save requirements can be added, and any Prestige Class necessitating a lot of ranks in many different skill is going to favor rogues, bards, and rangers. It might be a little strange to have a wizard qualify to be an Assasian at the same level as a rogue, but strange isnt necessarily bad, it will certainly cut down on player assumptions.

Is there some glaring implications I am missing? Is the idea plain cracked? Will humans be to powerful with an extra skill point?

 

[Darklone]

I am more worried about backwards conversions.

 

[Aaron2]

I was leaning towards doing the opposite; giving out more skill points but using class skills to distinguish the various roles.


Aaron

 

[sithramir]

weakening

Isn't making all skills class skills also weakening other skills. For instance, bluff, move silently, and hide are skills that maxed out work better because spot/listen/sense motive weren't class skills for everyone so they had half ranks in those skills. That meant that a 6th level rogue while hiding still can hide from a 6th level wizard most of the time because his ranks should beat the wizards cross ranks. With there being no cross class skills that wizard can have maxed out spot and a higher (whatever stat is spot I forget atm) than the thief has dex not only has an advantage but also makes it way too dependant on what the character rolls.

I liked the idea of if I rolled a 10 to hide they needed like a 12-15 to succeed at best while now it changes to them needing a 8-10 depending on stats.

Hurts thieves a bit.

 

[DreamChaser]

that is assuming that they will actually spend skill ranks. If I were playing a wizard , I might spend some points on Spot and Listen but I still have only 2 base skill points per level and have important things for my own class (Craft (Alchemy), Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft). Just because I have access doesn't mean I can make the best of it.

Now increasing base skill points across the board and opening up all the skills would kill the rogue completely.

DC

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

that is assuming that they will actually spend skill ranks. If I were playing a wizard , I might spend some points on Spot and Listen but I still have only 2 base skill points per level and have important things for my own class (Craft (Alchemy), Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft). Just because I have access doesn't mean I can make the best of it.

Now increasing base skill points across the board and opening up all the skills would kill the rogue completely.

A wizard is likely to start with ~16 Int. 5 skill points per level ain't shabby. The wizard only needs Concentration and Spellcraft. He has plenty of points left over to have a maxxed Spot, more than enough if he is human. Furthermore, Alertness from his familiar plus Eyes of the Eagle and you have a Spotting machine.

I think the cross-class skill mechanics are sound. What I think we need is more fiddling with how many skill points each class gets. Personally, I would like to see more skill points for all classes.

 

[Zerovoid]

I don't think it'll make a difference. I've never seen any character that had a sizable amount of points in a cross class skill, unless it was required for a prestige class or something. To be competetive, you need to max all the skills that you plan to use, otherwise you'll never pass your checks. What's the point of cross class skills?

 

[Ranger REG]

A lot of people think that cross-class skill is too expensive to reasonably take while you're advancing/training a level in a specific class with relevant class skills.

After, you level up a fighter and therefore you take things that are relevant as a fighter, but you want to also improve you knitting skill (irrelevant to fighter)?

Here's an experimental alternative: leave skill point allotment as is, but for every skill point you spend on class skill you gain 2 ranks. For cross-class, 1 rank for 1 skill point. That way, it's not expensive to take ranks in cross-class skills, but you gain more for taking class skills.

 

[sinmissing]

I struggle with the question as well. If you make every skill open, then bards and rogues suffer. Their class-skill list is one of the benefits of being a bard or rogue.

I have alternatively thought about:
A) Any skill that can be used untrained cost 1 Skill Point per rank.

B)If the skill is not a class-skill, then max ranks = Level. That way, you can't outshine the character that is suppose to be good at a particular skill.

 

[bret]

It really depends on how much you want to enforce stereotypes in your game.

There are certain skills that in my opinion always should be class skills for everyone: swim, climb, and Knowledge (local) being amoungst them. These are things that no one would think twice about a commoner having, so why can't the rogue, wizard, or cleric having them?

There are other skills that are a bit more tied to a certain class. Having a rogue or fighter that is better at identifying what an enemy spellcaster is casting would be a bit strange.

If you like the stereotypes, you might want to consider a more moderate position. Limit their maximum skill ranks based on if it is a class or cross class skill. Every skill costs 1 skill rank, but the rogues are still going to have a much higher tumble skill than the wizards.