EL Calculation for innebriation

[WizarDru]

Let's say you've got a bunch of CR 3 humanoids, but you want to make them drunk for the encounter. How do you model it, and how do you stat out the CR?

For example, I could give them the status of sickened, which is an effective -2 to any d20 roll they make, or I could have them all suffer ability damage, as per a poison (which doesn't really work for me).

But how would all of them being sickened affect the CR of the encounter? Is it just a ballpark figure, or is there a formula to use?

 

[Darkness]

Arms & Equipment Guide has rules for drunkenness. Basically, you need to make Fortitude saves of increasing difficulty and for every such save you fail, you lose 1d2 Dex and Wis. (These points come back at the rate of 1 per hour after you've stopped drinking.)

 

[WizarDru]

Arms & Equipment Guide has rules for drunkenness. Basically, you need to make Fortitude saves of increasing difficulty and for every such save you fail, you lose 1d2 Dex and Wis. (These points come back at the rate of 1 per hour after you've stopped drinking.)

Hmm. Interesting, but not quite what I was shooting for. I'm trying to avoid bookkeeping for this case. As a set encounter, their ability scores won't be random, regardless, so I'll just eyeball, I think, and represent it as being the equivalent of being sickened...it's not as strong on the verisimiltude side, but it is much easier to run, and I'll just eyeball the numbers. It wouldn't be exactly a drop of 2 CR per creature....but it's not that far off, I think.

 

[kenobi65]

I dunno that I'd drop it a full CR or whatever; the CR system's granularity isn't always terribly fine.

Think about the drunk bad guys as characters -- would the effect of them being drunk *really* lower their effectiveness by one full "level" or more? If so, then lowering their CR is probably a quick way to do it. If the effects aren't that severe, then I might simply apply an ad-hoc XP modifier of -10% or -20% for the relative "easiness" of the encounter.

 

[WizarDru]

I dunno that I'd drop it a full CR or whatever; the CR system's granularity isn't always terribly fine.

Think about the drunk bad guys as characters -- would the effect of them being drunk *really* lower their effectiveness by one full "level" or more? If so, then lowering their CR is probably a quick way to do it. If the effects aren't that severe, then I might simply apply an ad-hoc XP modifier of -10% or -20% for the relative "easiness" of the encounter.

Well, for a CR 3 NPC classed humanoid, taking "a –2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks" is pretty significant...about the only thing they don't seem to lose are hit points (and feats, ranks, etc.). However, your point is taken. I'm not sure the EL/CR value is going to be easy to compute, regardless.

The total encounter is one 5th level PC-classed humanoid, two 4th-level classed NPC humanoids and ten drunk 4th-level classed NPC humanoids. Even in their debilitated state, they represent a threat, especially as support for the boss monster. But I'm trying to guestimate the danger level of the encounter, and then tune it up or down. Playtesting may be the only way to get an accurate picture.

 

[kenobi65]

Good point on the effect of "sickened'; for fighter-types, that's pretty much docking them of two levels of fighting effectiveness.

OTOH, as you point out, the drunk NPCs are going to be the mooks in the encounter, anyway.

For purposes of calculating ELs, I'd do it with them at CR3, and CR2, and see what it tells you. My suspicion now is to treat them as CR2 for the encounter.

 

[dcollins]

Of course, to be perfectly technical, a situational modifier like this isn't supposed to modify CR. What you can say is that the encounter may be reduced by either -1 EL (2/3 XP), or -2 EL (1/2 XP).

 

[Gnome]

I'm thinking that there should also be some minor advantage to drunkenness, but I'm not sure what. Pain doesn't seem to bother people as much when drunk, so maybe something reflecting that (can operate for 1 round at negative hit points before falling unconscious, perhaps).

 

[kenobi65]

IIRC, back in 1st Edition AD&D, being drunk did grant extra HP.

 

[WizarDru]

Of course, to be perfectly technical, a situational modifier like this isn't supposed to modify CR. What you can say is that the encounter may be reduced by either -1 EL (2/3 XP), or -2 EL (1/2 XP).

Quite true. I'm using CR/EL description here rather lazily, and I shouldn't.

However, I wouldn't describe them as mooks, just not the encounter's heaviest hitter. Mostly, I'm trying to determine the lethality of this fight. If I'm doing the math correctly, this would be an EL 10, prior to subtracting for the drunk effect, yes? (1 CR5, 2CR4, 10 CR3)