Eladrin trance - 'waking' penalty?

[Nytmare]

I don't think the trance description means the eladrin is simply sitting motionless for four hours, waiting for something to happen and ready to jump at the first sign, and getting the full benefits of an extended rest at the end.

My first roomate in college was an Eladrin and he would totally freak me out when I'd come back to the dorm room and he'd be sitting in a trance in front of the TV.

I swear to god, I thought he was dead the first time I walked in on him doing that.

 

[Jhaelen]

tieflings sleep hanging from a rafter by their horns. Doing this grants combat advantage, and it requires a move action to disengage.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

In 3.x i usually handed it with one round of fatigue and the first round is always a surprise round for you. So only a standard action.

In 4e terms i would rule a round of beeing dazed save ends.

 

[Garthanos]

My daughter awakes nearly instantly talks clearly and reacts in the first 2 seconds like most folk do after they have been up and had a cup of joe.... My son awakes slow and requires near violence to awaken and is groggy for half an hour just like my best friend in college. My wife falls asleep instantly and awakes quick. I take longer to fall asleep, and I awake closer to my daughter but used to be sluggish like my son is.

Cant picture Aragorn or Legalos awaking groggy (see perception skills)

I think we already have it... A bad perception roll means you awoke groggy and they get that surprise... or if you are entranced similarly shaking the trance wasn't easy this time.

Applying an extended condition? is definitely house ruling

 

[Turtlejay]

In 3.x i usually handed it with one round of fatigue and the first round is always a surprise round for you. So only a standard action.

In 4e terms i would rule a round of beeing dazed save ends.

Why make them save if you are giving it a one round duration? This is 100% a house rule, but one round of dazed effectively equals a surprise round. If the enemies already got one of those, you are kind of penalizing your players for nothing.

Maybe apply this penalty in an endurance situation (a race to the North Pole!), but as a general rule, I don't think it is necessary.

Jay

 

[MatthewJHanson]

My group has ruled no penalty. But as the eladrin, I feel a bit guilty (seems a pretty powerful perk) and wonder whether this is correct.

How often does your group get attacked while resting? In the groups I've played with, it's infrequent enough that the perk only comes into every once and a while.

Plus if I were in your group, and we were attacked in the middle of the night, I'd be grateful that somebody is awake to fight the bad guys and wake the rest of us.

Don't feel guilty.

 

[N0Man]

My group has ruled no penalty. But as the eladrin, I feel a bit guilty (seems a pretty powerful perk) and wonder whether this is correct.
I've been unable to find any official - or otherwise! - clarification. How do most of you rule on this?

Your group is playing it right, no reason to feel guilty. I wouldn't consider it being very powerful unless you have a DM that likes to interrupt your rests all the time.

On the occasions it does help, that's what bonuses are for, to be used. Should a human feel guilty for using his bonus at-will or feat? Absolutely not.

However, I think the real value in the power is that when you have an Eladrin, there's less time wasted on extended rests as the players decide who will take each watch.

 

[john112364]

I think that penalizing a player with a dazed condition is harsh considering that your rest is interupted and you are possibly surprised to boot. Talk about insult to injury. And really is trance that game breaking that it needs such a house ruling?
When my mother was sick years ago, I could sometimes tell when she was going to have problems in the middle of the night by the changing of her breathing. (She had heart and lung problems so this was a bad sign.) I didn't notice this while awake, but while I was sleeping. The subconcious is a powerful thing.
Is it really too far fetched to think that a fantasy race with mystical abilities could do more than an ordinary, mundane human (such as me)?
I think of an Eladrin's Trance ability as the concious mind resting, while the subconcious mind makes a note of the surroundings. When something changes, the subconcious decides if this is normal or not (i.e. the perception check). If the check is made mayhem ensues.

 

[Narluin]

I think that penalizing a player with a dazed condition is harsh considering that your rest is interupted and you are possibly surprised to boot. Talk about insult to injury. And really is trance that game breaking that it needs such a house ruling?

Rest interrupted? So what. Once the encounter is over, go back and finish up the rest - you just add the time of the encounter to it.

And one round of surprise? There's a chance you'd be surprised even if you were on watch. Seems a pretty insignificant 'penalty' to me for being asleep during the start of an encounter.

I didn't notice this while awake, but while I was sleeping. The subconcious is a powerful thing.
Is it really too far fetched to think that a fantasy race with mystical abilities could do more than an ordinary, mundane human (such as me)?
I think of an Eladrin's Trance ability as the concious mind resting, while the subconcious mind makes a note of the surroundings. When something changes, the subconcious decides if this is normal or not (i.e. the perception check). If the check is made mayhem ensues.

Not far fetched at all. Of course, I never argued that being 'fully aware' was over-powered. But I still think being able to immediately respond to something that you notice while in a trance *is* over-powered.

Yet as I said a few posts back, I only raised this issue because I thought there was a general round-or-two penalty to actions after having been woken from sleep to represent a bit of sluggishness. Now that I realised I misread that rule, I certainly don't think eladrin should have a penalty for exiting a trance if other races don't have one for being woken early.

That said, I expect I will introduce a house rule to my first 4e game in a few weeks: daze save-ends to any races exiting their extended rest state early, alertness feat to avoid.