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Eladrin, warlords, and unnecessary D&Disms

rounser said:
Actually, no, you're on the wrong track about my position. The less D&Disms the better, IMO.
I love how you say that it's not a question of personal taste. In your opinion.
rounser said:
You could throw the argument back at me and say, "elves are a D&Dism, many S&S worlds don't have them", but I'd defuse your argument by saying they have strong, strong, strong mythological basis and resonance.
I like how you want D&D to be S&S and yet you also want it to have "mythological resonance." Since S&S has all of... well, no mythological resonance to speak of.
 

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rounser said:
Eladrin is not a name with a mythological basis (not even Tolkien etymology helps here, IMO), and sounds very specific. YMMV, but I don't want core D&D to be that specific - these "eladrin" will exist in every D&D world and game, more ubiquitous than even orcs, because orcs won't be in the PHB. It would be better if they'd chosen a generic fantasy name, something like Faerie. That would have been fine. But no.

I would have preferred the name Sidhe.
 

Stalker0 said:
I agree the problem with warlord is that it invokes something NOT described by the class, that of a big leader of armies, often taking over lands by force.

Yep. I'm with you on that. The name really doesn't work.

Prompts the idea that any warlord character will be the de facto leader and the rest of the party characters will be his to command. ... ala Warlord Bob & His Scheming Horde.
 


Scarbonac said:
I'd recommend "Champion" or "Stalwart" in place of "warlord".

Neither of these names is indicative of a leader.

Achilles was a champion, but he was no leader.
Superman is a stalwart, but he is no leader.

DreamChaser said:
That is because WoW does the imagining for you...all you need to do is click....and omit any semblance of a social life if you actually want to progress...people don't like to imagine...it's hard

And before I get flamed, I will admit, I have never played the game or any other online game (with the exception of EverQuest for 20 of the most (alternately) boring and frustrating minutes of my life).

On, so you don't want to get flamed, but you want to insult WoW players by suggesting that those of us that like the game lack imagination or social lives.

Real mature.

rounser said:
The less D&Disms the better, IMO.

The less D&Disms in D&D, the better? Uhhh... no.
 

Haffrung Helleyes said:
This whole discussion is a waste of time

We are dealing with the company that came up with the name 'Gleemax'. When was the last time you heard anyone saying that was a good (or even an OK) name. Yet they stick with it.

So, get used to sucky names.

Ken
Well a completely separate division of the company gave us the name 'Gleemax'. The arm that actually brings in most of the profits. That came from the MTG developers, not the D&D people - I don't think there's any crossover in terms of people working on both games aside from artists. I've never heard any D&D fans saying it was a good name, nor any D&D developers either. Yet the complaints about it are probably insignificant compared to the number of people that like it. It isn't a D&D web site, it's a gaming web site, and you have to understand that D&D has very little clout compared to MTG. Money talks.
 

rounser said:
I've already said that mythology should preferably be the basis for stuff in the core, and where else are you going to get your mythology? Mars?

You said that things shouldn't used if they sound like they're from a particular world. A good deal of things are from our particular world, and thus fall under your descriptor of "bad names for D&D."

Where did swords and chainmail come from - Jupiter?

Are you saying that swords and chainmail are mythological? Because if you are, that's stupid.

Where did "Eladrin" come from in mythology?

Where did halfling come from in mythology? Nowhere. Tolkein made them up and Gygax pinched them and changed the name. What about yugoloths, planetars, solars, devourers, girallons, gray renders, and all those others? No source in mythology, because they are simply D&D creations. Oh noes, D&D actually creates it's own stuff (beholders, mind flayers) because it doesn't just cleave simply to mythology (and where it does, it usually get things horribly wrong anyhow).

Nowhere - it's a contrived, made up word, and looks and sounds like one, even if it is Tolkien-inspired.

So is drow. It's derived from trow. So, it's a contrived made up word, even if it is myth-inspired. There's tons of stuff in D&D like this. That's why it's D&D and not just "Generic Mythology Simulator RPG."

That would be okay except the core should preferably have fidelity to mythology, else it becomes useless in representing fantasy that's outside the scope of WOTC's particular taste in it.

That is how it has always been. That's why there's been no goblins or orcs or any other common fantasy tropes in the PHB: because the company in charge of D&D didn't want to add them. Get over it.

That'd be okay if they just named it right.

In your opinion.

"Eladrin" is non-intuitive, doesn't explain itself and will not stand the test of time...

The same could be said about baatezu and tanar'ri, which have zero grounding in real world mythology or beliefs. Yet, somehow, despite being non-intuitive, not explaining themselves, they still stood the test of time.

and "warlord" is ridiculous.

Nothing you have proposed is more fitting in any regard.

Adventurers sitting around discussing where they're going to get a new warlord after the other one died just doesn't read.

Do you often sit around throwing around game mechanical terms in character?

As an aside, cambion is a better fit than that term anyway.

If you want something a name from a particular setting, in this case, medieval Europe.
 

Hobo said:
I love how you say that it's not a question of personal taste. In your opinion.

I like how you want D&D to be S&S and yet you also want it to have "mythological resonance." Since S&S has all of... well, no mythological resonance to speak of.

Does not compute. While LOTR is the foundation of modern epic high fantasy, it also fits squarely into the swords-and-sorcery genre.

Three Hearts and the Three Lions and the Broken Sword have elves. Lyonesse has elves.

Elves are in swords-and-sorcery.
 

Would you consider the name Melnibonéans, as different then Eladrin? (I mean in that they are both derived names for a race of non human elf like beings?)
 

pawsplay said:
Does not compute. While LOTR is the foundation of modern epic high fantasy, it also fits squarely into the swords-and-sorcery genre.

Three Hearts and the Three Lions and the Broken Sword have elves. Lyonesse has elves.

Elves are in swords-and-sorcery.
No, LOTR doesn't fit at all into S&S at all. In fact, given the points of reference of the modern fantasy genre being what they are, LOTR is almost the antithesis of S&S.

Elves could be in sword & sorcery, sure. I never said they couldn't. Just that they're not, really. Certainly not in the "classic" defining works of S&S. S&S is not characterized in the least by "mythic resonanance" either.
 

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