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UHF

First Post
I love it...

I feel that when they first came out with 4e, that they brought with it, too much old baggage. Monsters were the same as before, but by 4e terms they were weaker.

This dragon is going to be hard to kill, and on the battlefield is going to be way more exciting to see in action. Action recovery means he'll impossible to shut down, and Bloodied Breath will make him way more dynamic in battle.

Long gone are the days of claw claw bite.
 

Stalker0

Legend
The dragon definitely doesn't suffer from the same pains he once did...though they took out my favorite part of the dragon...the fact that it could strip away fire resistance.

One wizard's mass resistance spell really cuts out a huge portion of the dragon's damage.


Also have grab rules changed in the essentials?

It used to be the player had the option of athletics or acrobatics vs the creature's fort or reflex (respectively). Now its a set DC?
 

mageta80

First Post
Also have grab rules changed in the essentials?

It used to be the player had the option of athletics or acrobatics vs the creature's fort or reflex (respectively). Now its a set DC?

Rules compendium says that unless its a set DC, its still an opposed check vs Fort/Refl.

So, yeah, I suppose stealth change.
 


Mesh Hong

First Post
When I clicked on the link I was quite excited, when I read the dragon I was quite dissapointed.

It's essentially the same (you see what I did there? ;)) with the curious ommission of Frightful Presence. Have things degenerated so far that even dragons cannot have an encounter stun power? Surely dragons are scarey enough to cause even the occasional hardened adventurer to stand and stare slack jawed at their hideous majesty for a coupel of seconds?

I think I like the idea of giving a set DC for escape from grab because using the Fort/Ref of a monster at epic can be a really big problem for a lot of PCs who have a zero chance of making the roll. But I think that having two different DCs is a bit unnecessary, its interesting but in the heat of combat it would probably be easier to just have the same DC.

The half damage on a miss with imolate foe is a good addition and helps balance its usefulnes.

The Tail Strike is a bit strange, they obviously didn't want to give it threatening reach so they devised a mini threatening reach.
 


vagabundo

Explorer
I really like it; it is awesomely simple, yet very dangerous and interesting at the same time.

<3 the new stat blocks; very easy to read.
<3 the dragons powers; they look dangerous and chocked full of story.
<3 the new solo design; what solos should have been.

As some of the posters mentioned I'd like a wet me pants power from Dragons - they are the iconic foe in the game, if anyone was to get stun/dazes then it should be them.

And a flyby attack. That is how I imagine dragons would work.

Easy to readd with the MB I suppose. :D
 

I didn't really compare stat block format; I usually don't run monsters straight from the book, but put them on index cards, which makes mixing-and-matching easier.

(For instance, if I want to run an adult red dragon and some githyanki, I just collect the appropriate cards rather than flip back and forth like a maniac betweem MM1 pages.)

But I would like to see someone do a comparison between them. Maybe me when I'm back from work; I have index cards of both now.
 



Zaran

Adventurer
I wonder if any metallic dragons will make it into Essentials and, if so, will they be good aligned? They seem to be doing everything they can to backpedal on the changes they did with 4e.
 

Solvarn

First Post
Well, as long as stun is in the game, it should be an effect of frightful presence, IMO.

Yeah that makes sense. I really should have not mentioned it at all in this thread, so I'll make a dragon comment so I won't derail anything.

It would have been nice to see some kind of neat parlor trick for the dragon, kind of like the aura with the black.
 


Pickles JG

First Post
Frightful Presence is not so much powerful as a waste of time.
Typically the Dragon uses it's action to stun almost the whole party. So it trades its turn for their turns achieving very little. It requires some work & the use of an AP to make it relevant.

Were it to add it back I would make it a free action when the Dragon first attacks & give the attack roll penalty.
 

Mesh Hong

First Post
Stun should just be removed from the game altogether

I don't want to derail the thread but I couldn't disgree more with the above statement.

Stun is a very worthwhile status effect.

I was actually going to bring up my slight distaste at the the Red Dragons ability to automatically end all Daze, Stun and Dominate effects at the end of its turn. While I am a strong believer that solos should be hard to lock down I tend to favour allowing them a saving throw at the beginning or end of their turn against any one effect (with or without their +5 bonus), including effects that normally do not allow a save.

e.g.

Draconic Resilience
The Red Dragon may make an unmodified saving throw at the start of its turn against any one ongoing effect it is currently subject to, this can include effects that normally do not allow a saving throw.

Something like that gives a creature a reasonable chance of escaping being locked down while still also allowing a characters power to work as intended.

However I understand that this sort of thing falls into the realms of personal taste, much like Solvarns hatred of Stun or my love of jam and cheese sandwiches.
 

Mesh Hong

First Post
Frightful Presence is not so much powerful as a waste of time.
Typically the Dragon uses it's action to stun almost the whole party. So it trades its turn for their turns achieving very little. It requires some work & the use of an AP to make it relevant.

Were it to add it back I would make it a free action when the Dragon first attacks & give the attack roll penalty.

Yes you are right. I think I typically have it as a minor or move action, or change it into an actual attack that deals thunder damage or some such as well having the stun effect.
 

Zaran

Adventurer
I don't want to derail the thread but I couldn't disgree more with the above statement.

Stun is a very worthwhile status effect.

I was actually going to bring up my slight distaste at the the Red Dragons ability to automatically end all Daze, Stun and Dominate effects at the end of its turn. While I am a strong believer that solos should be hard to lock down I tend to favour allowing them a saving throw at the beginning or end of their turn against any one effect (with or without their +5 bonus), including effects that normally do not allow a save.

The way I read it, unless you stun the dragon between it's Instinctive Initiative and it's turn, your stun won't have any effect other than stopping it's free action attack.
 

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