Elder Red Dragon preview is up

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I didn't really compare stat block format; I usually don't run monsters straight from the book, but put them on index cards, which makes mixing-and-matching easier.

(For instance, if I want to run an adult red dragon and some githyanki, I just collect the appropriate cards rather than flip back and forth like a maniac betweem MM1 pages.)

But I would like to see someone do a comparison between them. Maybe me when I'm back from work; I have index cards of both now.

 

[Solvarn]

The young black dragon we have seen earlier is also missing frightful presence. Guess they thought that it's too powerful, even for dragons.

Stun should just be removed from the game altogether, it looks like they are taking steps in the right direction.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Stun should just be removed from the game altogether, it looks like they are taking steps in the right direction.

Well, as long as stun is in the game, it should be an effect of frightful presence, IMO.

 

[Zaran]

I wonder if any metallic dragons will make it into Essentials and, if so, will they be good aligned? They seem to be doing everything they can to backpedal on the changes they did with 4e.

 

[Solvarn]

Well, as long as stun is in the game, it should be an effect of frightful presence, IMO.

Yeah that makes sense. I really should have not mentioned it at all in this thread, so I'll make a dragon comment so I won't derail anything.

It would have been nice to see some kind of neat parlor trick for the dragon, kind of like the aura with the black.

 

[Zaran]

I'm not sure if i like the Tail Strike that attacks even shifting enemies.

 

[Pickles JG]

Frightful Presence is not so much powerful as a waste of time.
Typically the Dragon uses it's action to stun almost the whole party. So it trades its turn for their turns achieving very little. It requires some work & the use of an AP to make it relevant.

Were it to add it back I would make it a free action when the Dragon first attacks & give the attack roll penalty.

 

[Mesh Hong]

Stun should just be removed from the game altogether

I don't want to derail the thread but I couldn't disgree more with the above statement.

Stun is a very worthwhile status effect.

I was actually going to bring up my slight distaste at the the Red Dragons ability to automatically end all Daze, Stun and Dominate effects at the end of its turn. While I am a strong believer that solos should be hard to lock down I tend to favour allowing them a saving throw at the beginning or end of their turn against any one effect (with or without their +5 bonus), including effects that normally do not allow a save.

e.g.

Draconic Resilience
The Red Dragon may make an unmodified saving throw at the start of its turn against any one ongoing effect it is currently subject to, this can include effects that normally do not allow a saving throw.

Something like that gives a creature a reasonable chance of escaping being locked down while still also allowing a characters power to work as intended.

However I understand that this sort of thing falls into the realms of personal taste, much like Solvarns hatred of Stun or my love of jam and cheese sandwiches.

 

[Mesh Hong]

Frightful Presence is not so much powerful as a waste of time.
Typically the Dragon uses it's action to stun almost the whole party. So it trades its turn for their turns achieving very little. It requires some work & the use of an AP to make it relevant.

Were it to add it back I would make it a free action when the Dragon first attacks & give the attack roll penalty.

Yes you are right. I think I typically have it as a minor or move action, or change it into an actual attack that deals thunder damage or some such as well having the stun effect.

 

[Zaran]

I don't want to derail the thread but I couldn't disgree more with the above statement.

Stun is a very worthwhile status effect.

I was actually going to bring up my slight distaste at the the Red Dragons ability to automatically end all Daze, Stun and Dominate effects at the end of its turn. While I am a strong believer that solos should be hard to lock down I tend to favour allowing them a saving throw at the beginning or end of their turn against any one effect (with or without their +5 bonus), including effects that normally do not allow a save.

The way I read it, unless you stun the dragon between it's Instinctive Initiative and it's turn, your stun won't have any effect other than stopping it's free action attack.