Eldritch counter-blast?

[Abe.ebA]

A question about warlocks and their crazy blastings:
Can a warlock counterspell another warlock's invocations? Specifically, can they counter eldritch blasts? According to the SRD dispel magic works against spell-like abilities, so presumably a well-timed dispel magic (or voracious dispelling) would stop one, but can you use a Spellcraft check to identify a spell-like ability?
Assuming that it's possible to identify a warlock's invocation with Spellcraft, the question then becomes whether or not you can counterspell a spell-like ability with a spell-like ability. I assume voracious dispelling would work since the description says that you gain the ability to cast the spell Dispel Magic, but given that Eldritch Blast is not actually a spell, can you counterspell it?

Also: if a warlock counterspells with voracious dispelling, does it still deal damage? And does it negate other spells currently in effect on the counterspelled caster?

 

[frankthedm]

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): Spell-like abilities, as the name implies, are spells and magical abilities that are very much like spells. Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field).

No they can't counter by the rules, but i would allow a warlock to ready a blast to strike another blast. When the blasts meet both walocks roll damage, who ever rolls lower eats the damage of both blasts.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Assuming that it's possible to identify a warlock's invocation with Spellcraft, the question then becomes whether or not you can counterspell a spell-like ability with a spell-like ability. I assume voracious dispelling would work since the description says that you gain the ability to cast the spell Dispel Magic, but given that Eldritch Blast is not actually a spell, can you counterspell it?

No.

Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

 

[Magesmiley]

I'll pose an interesting sideline here - there are a couple of warlock invocations which provide dispel magic as a spell-like ability. Can these dispel magic spell-like abilities be used to counterspell? The SRD does indicate that spell-like abilities can't be used to counterspell, but dispel magic's description allows it to be used to "counter another spellcaster's spell".

 

[Infiniti2000]

I'll pose an interesting sideline here - there are a couple of warlock invocations which provide dispel magic as a spell-like ability. Can these dispel magic spell-like abilities be used to counterspell?

The answer is still no. It's a spell-like ability, not a spell.

 

[kigmatzomat]

The dispelling EBs would not be "counter spelling" per se as much as using an EB to disrupt spell casting that follows the same rules as Dispel Magic.

 

[Kurotowa]

The answer is still no. It's a spell-like ability, not a spell.

The dispelling EBs would not be "counter spelling" per se as much as using an EB to disrupt spell casting that follows the same rules as Dispel Magic.

This one's been debated by Warlock fans often, to no resolution. I fall in kigmatzomat's school of thought; Dispel Magic can counterspell as one of the power's effect, not by using the natural counterspell ability of the same spell, so it doesn't matter if it's a SLA Dispel Magic. Others continue to read it more literally and disagree.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The dispelling EBs would not be "counter spelling" per se as much as using an EB to disrupt spell casting that follows the same rules as Dispel Magic.

Does it use the Dispel Magic spell description or not? If it does, it's explicitly called counterspelling. And you cannot do that with spell-like abilities. So, look up the particular invocation and see if it has its own description of "dispel magic" that differs from the actual spell.

Counterspell
When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell targets a spellcaster and is cast as a counterspell. Unlike a true counterspell, however, dispel magic may not work; you must make a dispel check to counter the other spellcaster’s spell.

 

[Vorput]

No they can't counter by the rules, but i would allow a warlock to ready a blast to strike another blast. When the blasts meet both walocks roll damage, who ever rolls lower eats the damage of both blasts.

Coolest house rule, EVER! Now that'd make a cool duel...

 

[kigmatzomat]

Does it use the Dispel Magic spell description or not? If it does, it's explicitly called counterspelling. And you cannot do that with spell-like abilities. So, look up the particular invocation and see if it has its own description of "dispel magic" that differs from the actual spell.

It is possible to cast any spell as a counterspell. By doing so, you are using the spell’s energy to disrupt the casting of the same spell by another character. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.

What this means is that a mage with a held action can cast a "reversed" fireball spell to counter another caster's fireball. By the RAW, a spell-like fireball is both immune to a "reversed" fireball and is unable to be "reversed" for use in counter spelling.

Dispel Magic as a Counterspell: You can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, and you don’t need to identify the spell he or she is casting. However, dispel magic doesn’t always work as a counterspell (see the spell description).

Counterspell: When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell targets a spellcaster and is cast as a counterspell. Unlike a true counterspell, however, dispel magic may not work; you must make a dispel check to counter the other spellcaster’s spell.

As this is a feature of Dispel Magic it is a feature of a Spell-Like Ability Dispel Magic.

Note that in the description of Dispel Magic it states that this is not "a true counterspell."
The target spell's success is based on the standard rules of dispelling, NOT according to the rules on counterspelling.

Essentially you are holding action until the exact moment of casting, firing off a dispel magic at that specific spell. This is little different from holding action until the opponent casts a spell and then firing an Eldritch blast/magic missle/fireball to disrupt spellcasting through damage or by using silence to counter verbal components, or even throwing up a wall spell to break line of sight.