Eldritch Knight (full 20 progression)

[Sadrik]

Again casts as a bard but gets 7th level spells. Skills are as the Eldritch knight PrC not as the ones below they specifically for my game. Any comments on this class?

Edit: for clarity

Edit2: added the "code" thingy on the chart

ELDRITCH KNIGHT (MAGEKNIGHT)

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d8.

Class Skills
The eldritch knight’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Athletics (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (alchemy) (Int), Craft (arms & armor) (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (magic) (Int), Knowledge (high society) (Int), Pilot (chariot) (Dex), Research (Int), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Strategy & Tactics (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Table: The Eldritch Knight
Bab average
Fort good
ref poor
Will good

						––—— Spells per Day ——–—
Level 	Special 	0	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	6th	7th
1st	Combat Casting	2	0	—	—	—	—	—	—
2nd	Bonus feat	3	1	—	—	—	—	—	—
3rd			3	2	—	—	—	—	—	—
4th	Bonus feat	3	2	0	—	—	—	—	—
5th			3	3	1	—	—	—	—	—
6th			3	3	2	—	—	—	—	—
7th			3	3	2	0	—	—	—	—
8th	Bonus feat	3	3	3	1	—	—	—	—
9th			3	3	3	2	—	—	—	—
10th			3	3	3	2	0	—	—	—
11th			3	3	3	3	1	—	—	—
12th	Bonus feat	3	3	3	3	2	—	—	—
13th			3	3	3	3	2	0	—	—
14th			4	3	3	3	3	1	—	—
15th			4	4	3	3	3	2	—	—
16th	Bonus feat	4	4	4	3	3	2	0	—
17th			4	4	4	4	3	3	1	—
18th			4	4	4	4	4	3	2	—
19th			4	4	4	4	4	4	2	0
20th	Bonus feat	4	4	4	4	4	4	3	1

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the eldritch knight.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An eldritch knight is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor and shields (except tower shields). An eldritch knight can cast sorcerer/ wizard spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, an eldritch knight wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass eldritch knight still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Combat Casting: At 1st level an eldritch knight gains Combat Casting as a bonus feat

Spells: An eldritch knight casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. An eldritch knight must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time (see below).
To learn, prepare, or cast a spell, the eldritch knight must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an eldritch knight’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the eldritch knight’s Intelligence modifier.
Like other spellcasters, an eldritch knight can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Eldritch Knight. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score.
Unlike a bard or sorcerer, an eldritch knight may know any number of spells. She must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time by getting a good night’s sleep and spending 1 hour studying her spellbook. While studying, the eldritch knight decides which spells to prepare.

Bonus Languages: An eldritch knight may substitute Draconic for one of the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.

Bonus Feats: At 2nd, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level, an eldritch knight gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity, she can choose a metamagic feat, a fighter feat, Improved Familiar or Spell Mastery. The eldritch knight must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including caster level minimums.
These bonus feats are in addition to the feats that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. The eldritch knight is not limited to the categories of metamagic feats, fighter feats, Improved Familiar or Spell Mastery when choosing these feats.
An eldritch knight can forgo gaining one of their bonus feats to obtain a familiar in exactly the same manner as a sorcerer can. See the sorcerer description and the information on Familiars for details.

Spellbooks: An eldritch knight must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, except for read magic, which all eldritch knights can prepare from memory.
An eldritch knight begins play with a spellbook containing eight 0-level sorcerer/wizard spells plus two 1st-level spells of your choice. For each point of Intelligence bonus the eldritch knight has, the spellbook holds one additional 0-level or 1st-level spell of your choice. At each new eldritch knight level, she gains one new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new eldritch knight level) for her spellbook. At any time, an eldritch knight can also add spells found in other spellbooks to her own.

 

[radferth]

What are the saves and BAB. With full BAB and one favored save, this one seems pretty close. I don't much care for the name, but that is WotCo, not your doing. One problem that does come up with this (and other versitile classes) is that their balance relative to other classes is affected by how high the ability scores in a campaign tend to be. You could make up a literally do-everything class that would be weak in a stingey system (22 point or straight 3d6) but quite overpowered in game with generous ability scores.

 

[Sadrik]

Yeah, I realized I forgot to put in the Bab and saves, I edited them in.

I see what you mean if you have good stats how that can effect the power level of characters especially general purpose classes like these. However good stats can be a real boon to a lot of classes, the Monk is the most obvious one.

However, I do think that these "fix it PrC's" fill in holes that are in the game. They brought these PrC's out to fix obvious holes in the system and I think that these classes fill in that nitch nicely and better than the PrC's do.

Here was my design specs. Essentially adding together two 14th level classes. So the eldritch knight is at 20th level equavlent to a 14/14 fighter/wizard and the Arcane Trickster is equal to a 14/14 rogue/wizard. You need the boost of those four levels when you are more generalized, I dont think that that can be argued.

 

[Bront]

I think you're better with Fort save being the only good, and full BAB.

Drop the "Can cast in armor". I think there are feats that allow for that, and a few classes, but if he's got full spell access to the Wiz/Sorc list, he souldn't get a free pass on light armor with no restrictions.

Again, I think you can drop familiar access. He's not a full caster, and I think that should be a Wiz/Sorc thing only.

Combat Casting was voted as one of the top 5 useless feats. You're better off giving him Skill Focus Concentration (At +3, it's almost as good as combat casting, but works in every situation). I'd suggest simply allowing a bonus feat there instead, and allowing Skill Focus Concentration and Combat Casting into the list of feats allowable as a bonus feat.

 

[Sadrik]

No way on the full BAB.

And giving combat casting as a bonus is perfectly reasonable it is a small bonus for a character who would likely be doing a lot of casting in combat. Another bonus feat there would make them comprable to a fighter, would front load them to much and make them too powerful.

I see your point on the familiar thing. My thought was that I would throw the option in there for players who really wanted there character to have one. I know that if I were to play the class I would never actually do it, I would prefer the fighter feats!

Sadrik

Casting in light armor is ripped straight from the bards ability. I dont think that it is too strong or too weak but just right, basically lets them forgoe casting mage armor for wearing their chain shirt.

 

[Beholder Bob]

To give these guys flavor, and limit them: allow only 4 schools & universal. This makes a true wizard a master of versatility, but gives these fellows enough room to have a good mix of spells. Also, no need for a familiar, a feat in CArc allows for that. Limit them to learning a maximum of 2 extra spells from other sources for each level gained (a 1st level can learn up to 2 spells from scrolls, while at 15th level, up to 30 spells may be added from other sources). This restriction will keep his spell selection tight, but not so bad as the sorcerer.

I agree, by the way, full base attack progression would be too much (and negate the need for the hex warrior).

You may want his casting in armor to be based on the war mage, not the bard or hex warrior. War mage eventially learns to use medium armor at 7th or 8th level & is more competent with a shield. A minor but important point.

Take the above suggestion with a 5lb nugget of salt.

As an aside, I use a modified hex warrior to fit the same niche you are filling. The modifiers to the hex warrior class are:
d8 HD
Medium Base attack
Good will & fort save
Spells known & castable as bard
Armor as warmage - not bard!
A unique spell list - focused on self buffs, curses & curse like spells

BB

 

[Bront]

Casting in light armor is ripped straight from the bards ability. I dont think that it is too strong or too weak but just right, basically lets them forgoe casting mage armor for wearing their chain shirt.

Bardic casting is due to the light somatic components of bard spells, and is built in to their difficulty. That's why I think you shouldn't include it with them.

The full BAB is only if you drop one of their saves to low and drop the casting in armor. I think it works fine with those limits, as well as everything else.

I agree that limiting them to 4 schools and Universal (Or 3 schools, Divination, and universal, but not nessessarily) is not a bad idea to keep their repitoir down a bit.

I agree they will be doing a lot of casting in combat. And if you're looking to give them a weak feat for it, then that's the right feat. Makes sense, and doesn't frontload the class.

An interesting option, if you make the Knights a strict order, you could note that you can't multi-class and go back later and advance as a Knight (like a paladin) other than in special approved PrCs. It's a small limitation, but it does give them a bit of flavor, and limit them a bit.

 

[Sadrik]

You guys are attributing too much flavor to them. I want them to be sort of flavorless like the wizard and fighter. Bland some might say, but I say interesting enough to give them my own flavor!

Sadrik

 

[Beholder Bob]

Bardic casting is due to the light somatic components of bard spells, and is built in to their difficulty. That's why I think you shouldn't include it with them.

The full BAB is only if you drop one of their saves to low and drop the casting in armor. I think it works fine with those limits, as well as everything else.

- - but this line of reasoning does not follow for the other 2 arcane casters, war mage and hex warrior. I think its fine to leave in.

Full base attack with up to 7th level spells is too potent, even with the drop in saves & armored casting. The hex blade is the best example of the power curve: limited to casting as a paladin, only 1 good save, but the ability to cast in light armor, and full base attack. Giving up his armor to increase his spell casting to 7th level spells (as well many more spells per day) at the cost of light armor is way too much, let alone gaining a wider spell selection then his current meager fare.

To give these guys flavor, and limit them: allow only 4 schools & universal.

The limiting to 4 schools & universal does not enforce a specific flavor, but rather leaves it open to the player, much as the domains available to a cleric do.

BB

 

[Sadrik]

- - The limiting to 4 schools & universal does not enforce a specific flavor, but rather leaves it open to the player, much as the domains available to a cleric do.

BB

Ok, good point. It is a little restrictive though dont you think. Only access to half the availiable spells? I might concur on something more like: choose three restricted schools or something like that...

Oh yeah I wrote this before Comp Arc so the writing up of the familiar thing is kind of clunky but you are right I could actually just remove that whole paragraph for: simply you have access to call familiar (or whatever the feat is called) on their bonus feat list.

Sadrik