Elegance and the development of game systems.

[TerraDave]

Hey, I killed this thread. Just saying.

 

[El Mahdi]

Old threads never die!

...they just disapear into the electronic ether.

 

[MerricB]

Good stuff.

I wonder if we are missing a dimension? (beyond Depth, just added).

Hero/Champions is potentially a very complete, elegant, and flexible game.
3E also does seem to be more complete, elegant, and flexible then 4E.

But I am not looking to play either any time soon.

CoC has some truly elegant mechanics, and can feel quite complete and flexible. A huge advnance for its time. But its not perfect: it really only works for certain types of campaings and scenarios, the % skill system doesn't work that well for variable challenges (though I like it) and as noted it does have some pretty quirky combat rules (which I think we normally ignore), You could even start the big argument that the d20 version, in part by cleaning up combat, adding more options, etc, comes closer to completeness and elegence.

But I am always up for a game of (BRP) CoC.

Why? It really works in play. The play experience is a little narrow, but very successfull.

This playability is why I like 4E over past editions. I can critique the game all day long in my head (or online). It doesn't feel as elegant, complete, or flexible as past editions. But it just seems to do better what we where trying to do before. I am not sure if this can be embeded in these other concepts, or is something else.

There is the issue of "smooth to play" (playability) that needs to be considered. The d20+modifiers >= DC is an elegant mechanic, but if there are twenty modifiers, then the playability goes out the window. The buffing mechanic in 3e was one of the chief offenders.

One of the chief problems of 4e is tracking conditions. Remembering what all the conditions do (due to the reduced list) is much, much easier, but the DM tracking conditions on monsters can be tricky. (My pet hate is a reduction to hit; I can remember "slowed" or "weakened", but "-2 to next attack" is almost always forgotten!)

Cheers!

 

[Ariosto]

TerraDave, what the heck are these "variable challenges" to which you refer? How is it that d100 "doesn't work that well", relative to (I infer) d20?

Call of Cthulhu works for CoC campaigns; why one would expect it to be "perfect" for all other types is beyond me. The underlying BRP framework, though, has been adapted just as well (IMO) to sword-and-sorcery and space-opera milieus. I think it handles superheroes about as well as GURPS -- or as well as Champions handles more realistic situations.