Elemental Campaign World

GreatLemur said:
I've got to admit, that is sort of interesting. I think I'd just prefer it if it wasn't formalized as a set of artificial-sounding categories. For example, what if the primal force mortals interact with as "fire" was generalized a bit more vaguely as something like "energy" (thus including things like lightning, movement, and perhaps even life or magic) or "entropy" (which would then also maifest as things like rust, rot, and erosion). I dunno; I'm thinking this up as I go.

That reminds me of the way they did the old Immortal rules...the five spheres/elements were energy, matter, thought, time and entropy. I've always kind of like those classificiations. And it is something to think about, as there are a lot of spells and such that don't fit into the standard concepts of earth, water, air and fire. The basic four have just always been too limited, in my opinion.
 

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Looking at some of the other settings I realized I had too few villages, just larger towns and cities. Is it an issue if there is large distances between areas of civilization in a campaign world? I've always wondered that, because I only have 4 cities and 4 towns per element, for a total of 35 or so civilized areas on the planet. I might a few extra villages but I need some good element-based names. Right now my major cities are named things like Skyfall, Riptide, Windbreak, Brimstone, etc. I'm thinking of adding a myriad of smaller villages like Puff, Torch, Drip, Pebble, nice simple one word names. Anyone have any interesting suggestions?
 

Did you come up with rationalizations for the axes you had?

Sort of. A big part of it was that the "elemental" planes actually weren't quite so elemental. In D&D, the plane of Air is just that, Air. No land, just everyone flying around. In mine, the six Outer planes are all just variations of Earth that lean in one direction. For instance, the "Plane of Fire" was actually just a desert world. Specifically, it was called Arrakis, so you can guess some of its key elements. Likewise, the "Plane of Water" is a world where no land was above the water's surface (and no, Kevin Costner had nothing to do with it); floating cities were built on the continental shelves, with the largest city being Atlantis. The Plane of Earth is one where the surface was uninhabitable, so civilization developed in caverns underground (i.e., Underdark), while the Plane of Air... well, ever see the anime Nausicaa? All the lowlands are filled with volcanic/toxic gases, so the only life is the stuff that can fly or perch on mountaintops.

So the difference between the Plane of Life and the Plane of Death is simply environmental; on Life, there's plenty of sunlight and a moderate amount of the other elements, so life flourishes, and the plants are all photosynthetic. On Death, it's permanently clouded over (which doesn't automatically mean an Ice Age, but it's close), so most of the life forms are parasitic, have vampiric traits (like the Shades) or can form protective shells (like the Gargoyles), and it's a lot harder for stuff to survive. With that in mind, connecting them by the Plane of Light makes sense, since they're sort of like what'd happen to Earth at the two extremes.

Thinking of it as extremes helps with the others, but it's still mostly rationalization. If you think of Force as the intensity of movement and Nexus as the unpredictability of the direction (which works better if you think of it as Chaos), then it makes some sense; each element is the extreme of one of the two variables and moderate on the other.
Earth only moves rarely, but when it does, it's in moderately unpredictable ways (earthquakes, rockslides).
Air moves quickly, and while it's somewhat variable, it still mostly blows in one direction on a given day.
Water moves somewhat slowly, but it flows in predictable ways in one direction. Rivers don't suddenly reverse direction.
Fire also moves somewhat slowly, but it expands chaotically, in random directions. Fires can expand upwind, jump across streams, etc.
So, the difference between Earth and Air is a matter of law/Force, while the difference between Water and Fire is chaos/Nexus. Remember, this doesn't have to make sense, scientifically; it's the metaphysics of a primitive world, given life. Besides, from a game sense it's more balanced that way. Each elemental triad has a wide variety of abilities, but doesn't cover everything.

Also, the reasons I did the planes those ways was that in this campaign, planar travel spells are MUCH easier to get; the basic self-only planar travel spell is a level 2 spell, and the simplest group version was level 3 or 4. So, the campaign jumped around constantly.
 

Really neat stuff Spatzimaus. Again, not what I'm going for, but fun to read. I may work on the axes stretching between them along the dust, steam type of concept, but I might not. I think I have to stick to the crawl/walk/run concept and handle one campign design problem at a time.
 


kanithardm said:
Not to sound stupid or anything, but what's #5?

Life, Void, balance thingy, etc.?

Well, I've seen earth/air/fire/water + Life as in druid animal/plant related. I've seen it with light, or with magic, there's different combos by different publishers, but the basic four elements are earth, air, fire and water. Is that what you're asking?
 

DamionW said:
Well, I've seen earth/air/fire/water + Life as in druid animal/plant related. I've seen it with light, or with magic, there's different combos by different publishers, but the basic four elements are earth, air, fire and water. Is that what you're asking?

Ya, pretty much. Personally, I use the four, light, shadow and then the four mixed together. Like Earth+Water=Ice.
 

kanithardm said:
Ya, pretty much. Personally, I use the four, light, shadow and then the four mixed together. Like Earth+Water=Ice.
I'd argue that Earth+Water=Mud or Acid. Ice is merely another state of water induced by cold (a lack of heat, which has nothing to do with earth), whereas steam is water that has been combined with fire. But what do you make the combinations of the other elements become? I'm especially looking at Earth+Air, which is a combination that has always stumped me.
 

genshou said:
I'd argue that Earth+Water=Mud or Acid. Ice is merely another state of water induced by cold (a lack of heat, which has nothing to do with earth), whereas steam is water that has been combined with fire. But what do you make the combinations of the other elements become? I'm especially looking at Earth+Air, which is a combination that has always stumped me.

I really think dust makes the most sense to me. A plane combined of Earth and Air would be a constant whipping storm of sand and grit, choking any that breathe. You'd find some areas that are seas of silt, like in Dark Sun. That seems the most logical to me. Solid like earth, yet fluid like air. That's dust in a nutshell.

What I don't get is how AD&D core rules imply Air+Water=Ice. That has NEVER made sense to me. If anything it should be Rain. All weather related phenomenon should be related to that inner plane. Ice has nothing to do with Air as I see it.
 

genshou said:
Look at all the successful video games that rely heavily on the concept of the elements (particularly, thinking of Golden Sun and Final Fantasy).
Yeah, they're actually a very large part of why I dislike elemental systems. Why would I like something more if I've already seen it used a bunch of times by existing popular entertainment media?

genshou said:
And what's wrong with orderly? Isn't everything else in game rules orderly? And haven't we determined that all things in the real-world universe follow laws (only some of which we can understand at this point)?
The universe most certainly is governed by laws. But you generally won't find in it the sort of simplicity and symmetry presented in elemental systems. The idea of the world being composed of or governed by four clearly-defined and fundamentally-equal forces just doesn't ring true to me.
 

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