Elemental Planes Killed

[catsclaw227]

Well the City of Brass was decently detailed in 3e. Not as in depth as the 2e looks at the city, but the detail was there.

Necromancer's version of City of Brass for 3e was awesome, and it's huge. There was more work done in 2e than that?

The planes, including the elemental planes as of their 1e/2e/3e conception, -really- inspired me. I started playing in 3e, and now on the cusp of 4e I've written somewhere over 2500-3000 pages worth of planar material. Radically altering the flavor assumptions and wholesale content and focus of the planes in 4e is a pretty hard pill to immediately swallow when I've put that much work into, and gotten that much enjoyment and creative spark out of, the 1e/2e/3e cosmology material.

Was this writing done as a paid assignment from WOTC or another publisher? I'd love to read it sometime if it was, because it's probably very good, and written as a passion project.

But if it wasn't (and, please, I don't mean to sound crass) and it was just done as a personal exercise for your home group and for others to read in the public domain, well then.... that's the risk you take writing about someone else's IP. Companies often take risks with their work and change is often a necesary part of MOST company's intellectual property. It stimulates growth and allows for out-of-the-box new ideas.

It's WOTC's IP, and if they feel making some changes to the planar system (Great Wheel, FR pantheons, elemental planes, etc) recharges the default setting or other published settings, then they have the right to take that risk. Even if it invalidates fan fiction.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

That would be awesome, but I doubt it will happen. I really don't see WotC letting anyone near previous planar IP, even if just to prevent competition for $ from people interested in planar campaigns.

The 1E names of the planes are not copyrightable, unless WotC wants to go after the Bible, Greek myth and other pre-existing sources. The 2E names are toast but, frankly, good riddance to bad rubbish.

Other than Sigil, there's very little they can claim as theirs. And there's always room for more planar metropoli.

 

[Shemeska]

There was more work done in 2e than that?

2e's Secrets of the Lamp and The Inner Planes had gobs of detail, and the 3e Planar Handbook had a sub-chapter on the city.

Was this writing done as a paid assignment from WOTC or another publisher? I'd love to read it sometime if it was, because it's probably very good, and written as a passion project.

A few articles in Dragon [The Gatetown of Ecstasy in 351, the Demiplane article in 353, the Keeper ecology in 353, I did a number of the top d20 villains in 359, a few eastereggs of lower planar lore in Dungeon 144, the dergholoth piece in Dungeon 150, and a story in Knowledge Arcana #5.] However the vast bulk of what I've written has been purely because it's fun to write (2000 pages of my pair of planar Storyhours for instance, around twenty odd short stories most of them involving fiends, and some random bits of response fiction to other writers as we feed off of one anothers' ideas -Ripzerai and I have done this a number of times).

WotC can change what they want, but they'll certainly risk producing something that people might not feel is up to par with what was already out there, or something different enough to be partially or wholly unusable if they're already deeply invested in prior planar lore in their campaigns (my group would hang me if I switched over to the apparent 4e conception of Baator). That said, admittedly they could always win me over if they come up with ideas that blow my mind and I might sooner or later find myself inspired by it and writing another 1k pages of fluff. The putative increase in fluff in 4e is promising, but the changes thus far seem jarring, and I can't predict if they'll hit the same buttons in my head that 2e/3e planar stuff did even if they offer more stuff.

 

[Gentlegamer]

My reaction is that all of the planes have been suitable for adventure: at mid-high levels. I guess the goal is to have them open for adventure at lower levels.

 

[catsclaw227]

2e's Secrets of the Lamp and The Inner Planes had gobs of detail, and the 3e Planar Handbook had a sub-chapter on the city.

Looks like I'll be going to RPGNow to pick up a few PDFs. Care to recommend any more extra-planar essentials?

A few articles in Dragon [The Gatetown of Ecstasy in 351, the Demiplane article in 353, the Keeper ecology in 353, I did a number of the top d20 villains in 359, a few eastereggs of lower planar lore in Dungeon 144, the dergholoth piece in Dungeon 150, and a story in Knowledge Arcana #5.] However the vast bulk of what I've written has been purely because it's fun to write (2000 pages of my pair of planar Storyhours for instance, around twenty odd short stories most of them involving fiends, and some random bits of response fiction to other writers as we feed off of one anothers' ideas -Ripzerai and I have done this a number of times).

I really need to catch up on the story hours, and I'll look into the Dragon/Dungeon articles.

WotC can change what they want, but they'll certainly risk producing something that people might not feel is up to par with what was already out there, or something different enough to be partially or wholly unusable if they're already deeply invested in prior planar lore in their campaigns (my group would hang me if I switched over to the apparent 4e conception of Baator). That said, admittedly they could always win me over if they come up with ideas that blow my mind and I might sooner or later find myself inspired by it and writing another 1k pages of fluff. The putative increase in fluff in 4e is promising, but the changes thus far seem jarring, and I can't predict if they'll hit the same buttons in my head that 2e/3e planar stuff did even if they offer more stuff.

Have you thought about compiling it, editing it for 4e and then submitting it to Necromancer or Paizo for publication as a supplement? You'd have to get someone* to bang out some crunchy bits if you don't like that kind of work, but it might be worth it. Or just Self-Publish it.

* They should be good though. There's not much worse than great fluff crucified in a review because the stat blocks sucked.

 

[green slime]

"Hey look, we know you guys are completely lacking in imagination, and couldn't hold a match stick to a candle.

Here, let us imagine your Elemental Planes for you, in the fashion you really want. And we know what you want. Its going to be tres cool. Fantastic place for adventure. You'll see. Everything is golden from here on in. Just relax, and let us do the thinking.

That's it.

Doubleplusgood.

Now run along and consume like the mindless, soulless, lazy dweeb we know you are. You know you want to."

 

[Kobold Avenger]

My reaction is that all of the planes have been suitable for adventure: at mid-high levels. I guess the goal is to have them open for adventure at lower levels.

That's what Planescape was for, having the planes open for adventure at lower levels.

 

[D.Shaffer]

"Hey look, we know you guys are completely lacking in imagination, and couldn't hold a match stick to a candle.

*snip*

Now run along and consume like the mindless, soulless, lazy dweeb we know you are. You know you want to."

...Uh huh. You DO realise that by extending the logic of the sarcasm here, ANY bit of fluff detailing is 'Doubleplusgood CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME' material, right?

 

[Piratecat]

...right. Green Slime, don't post in this thread any longer. Our patience for vast, sweeping insults designed to inflame arguments is not particularly high.

Honest, it is possible to express your unhappiness without resorting to snide sarcasm. Thank you to everyone in this thread who has managed it.

Thread back on topic, please. GS, email me if you want to discuss this.

 

[Baby Samurai]

Especially Earth. "You're embedded in solid rock. Have fun!"

The Dao and Xorn take care of that.