mroberon1972
First Post
RangerWickett said:
<whine>
But I don't haaaaavvvvve it!
</whine>
Oh, I printed your book. It very pretty. Had it bound and given a color cover.
-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Elements of Magic: Questions for the Designer
- Thread starter Psion
- Start date
<whine>
But I don't haaaaavvvvve it!
</whine>
Oh, I printed your book. It very pretty. Had it bound and given a color cover.
Blue mage for hire2
First Post
Here are some spell lists I'd like to donate
Deadly Displacement
Create Space 2/ Move Force 2/ Move Space 1/Gen 3/Evoke Space 4
Total MP: 11
Duration: 10 min, Evocation lasts 1 min.
Range Short (30 ft.)
This spell is one of the most well-kept secrets of Duhamel, the Master of Space (if not Time), and he reserves it only for important enemies, least someone figures it out. First, the spell creates a gate to a pocket of space 10 feet wide behind the target (who can be in 30 ft. of the caster), followed by an invisible hand of Force bull rushing the target (with 25 effective strength), pushing it into the pocket dimension, which only has one opening. Within the pocket dimension, the target suffers 1d6 points of space damage during the first minute. During this time the caster may close the entrance to the pocket space to let his/her enemy suffer, cast ANOTHER spell (like the Grudgeholder, below) or push someone else in if they are 10 ft. away from of the entrance to the pocket space (a forced teleport, then a bull rush). The Enduring damage lasts only 1 minute, but the target isn't ejected from the pocket dimension until the spell ends in 10 minutes, or it escapes through an open exit. 2 MP elemental object, 2 MP Effective strength 25, 1 MP 10 foot teleport, 4 MP enduring damage, 1 MP Short range, 1 MP 10-foot area, full circle, 1 MP 10 minute duration.
Grudgeholder
Evoke Force 6/ Move Force 1/ Gen 3
Total MP: 10
Range: 30 ft.
Duration: 1 minute
This spell, once cast, lets loose a violent burst of Pure Energy, dealing 3d6 damage to all corporeal and incorporeal creatures in a ten foot burst. This spell's area of effect can move at the casters whim, and lasts for as long for 60 seconds, as long as the caster can concentrate on venting his/her rage on
the hated enemies and all those who dare protect them! It also helps that this spell knows to only harm up to ten selected foes with no risk of friendly fire........
Invincibility!
Abjure Space 4/ Abjure Force 3/ Transform Space 8/ Heal Life 4/ Gen 1
Total MP: 20
Range: Touch
Duration: 10 Minutes
The Ultimate in Defense, this spell grants the target to become intangible, as well as recieving 20 space energy resistance and 12 SR, and with automatic healing (1d6 per round) lasting for the first minute of this spell's duration. Off course, those annoying Ghost touch weapons tend to spoil your fun, but hey, you COULD cast another defensive spell. You're a 20th level mage, after all.^_^
A little high level, but do these help? Please point out any rules restricting the abilities of my spells that I missed, I haven't had time to review all the rules with my incessant college exams.
Deadly Displacement
Create Space 2/ Move Force 2/ Move Space 1/Gen 3/Evoke Space 4
Total MP: 11
Duration: 10 min, Evocation lasts 1 min.
Range Short (30 ft.)
This spell is one of the most well-kept secrets of Duhamel, the Master of Space (if not Time), and he reserves it only for important enemies, least someone figures it out. First, the spell creates a gate to a pocket of space 10 feet wide behind the target (who can be in 30 ft. of the caster), followed by an invisible hand of Force bull rushing the target (with 25 effective strength), pushing it into the pocket dimension, which only has one opening. Within the pocket dimension, the target suffers 1d6 points of space damage during the first minute. During this time the caster may close the entrance to the pocket space to let his/her enemy suffer, cast ANOTHER spell (like the Grudgeholder, below) or push someone else in if they are 10 ft. away from of the entrance to the pocket space (a forced teleport, then a bull rush). The Enduring damage lasts only 1 minute, but the target isn't ejected from the pocket dimension until the spell ends in 10 minutes, or it escapes through an open exit. 2 MP elemental object, 2 MP Effective strength 25, 1 MP 10 foot teleport, 4 MP enduring damage, 1 MP Short range, 1 MP 10-foot area, full circle, 1 MP 10 minute duration.
Grudgeholder
Evoke Force 6/ Move Force 1/ Gen 3
Total MP: 10
Range: 30 ft.
Duration: 1 minute
This spell, once cast, lets loose a violent burst of Pure Energy, dealing 3d6 damage to all corporeal and incorporeal creatures in a ten foot burst. This spell's area of effect can move at the casters whim, and lasts for as long for 60 seconds, as long as the caster can concentrate on venting his/her rage on
the hated enemies and all those who dare protect them! It also helps that this spell knows to only harm up to ten selected foes with no risk of friendly fire........
Invincibility!
Abjure Space 4/ Abjure Force 3/ Transform Space 8/ Heal Life 4/ Gen 1
Total MP: 20
Range: Touch
Duration: 10 Minutes
The Ultimate in Defense, this spell grants the target to become intangible, as well as recieving 20 space energy resistance and 12 SR, and with automatic healing (1d6 per round) lasting for the first minute of this spell's duration. Off course, those annoying Ghost touch weapons tend to spoil your fun, but hey, you COULD cast another defensive spell. You're a 20th level mage, after all.^_^
A little high level, but do these help? Please point out any rules restricting the abilities of my spells that I missed, I haven't had time to review all the rules with my incessant college exams.
PugioilAudacio
First Post
Interesting spells. I wonder if there is a DM willing to run a PbP game based on EoM
PugioilAudacio
First Post
I only started proofreading in the middle of the document, but here's what I came up with as far as typos, unclear areas, etc: (Changes are in bold)
page 28 - third paragraph under the "Spell Enhancements" heading-
"For example, if you cast Compel Humanoid 7/Evoke Fire 3/ Gen 2, you can spend no more than 7 MP on Compel enhancemenets, no more than 3 MP on Evoke enhancements, and no more than 2 MP on General enhancements."
Besides the left out "than" - this paragraph is a little unclear. It seems to be saying that if you cast a Compel Humanoid 7, you can't spend more than 7 MP on the spell. Isn't that kind of obvious? Also, the beginning "For example" serves to confuse, as the previous paragraph talked about TOTAL MP spent, rather than MP spent per spell list.
page 28 - second column, last full paragraph: "Also, if the spell has a large are of effect..." How large is considered large?
page 30 - first paragraph, when talking about using skills with spells cast not from their own knowledge: "In these cases, make your skill check as if you had ranks equal to the MP spent on Dispel Magic, or using your own ranks if that is higher."
Do you mean that when using any magical skill from an outsides source you instead use your ranks in Dispel Magic? Or your ranks in whatever skill is being used?
page 31 - second colum, under the heading of Damage Reduction, [Element]: "The spell provides DR that applies against against..."
Extra "against".
page 35 - first column, towards the end of the heading Binding, [Alignment] (3 MP): "If a creature attacks or otherwise deals damage to the bound creature, it is free to retaliate, but is still bound spatially. If you attack the bound creature, it is free entirely from the binding."
Does this mean that a casters allies can attack the creature, but the caster himself can not (without freeing the creature)?
page 37 - first column 3rd paragraph, towards the end: "Once a happiness, anger, fear, or confusion effect wears off, though, the creature will realize they were being influenced. Note that this only applies to happiness, anger, and confusion effects."
Should this be "only applies to happiness, anger, confusion, and fear effects?"
page 37 - second column, right above the Emotions heading: "If there is more than one creature in the area of effect, this spell affects those with the lowest Hit Dice first, until it reaches its Hit Dice Threshold. Creatures beyond the HD Threshold are not affected at all."
Does this mean that the spell will affect everything below the threshold? Or that it will only affect a number of hit dice equal to the threshold. The text would support the second version, as it says it affects those with the lowest Hit Dice first, but it is not perfectly clear on this point.
page 42 - second column, Mind Read (4 MP) header: "Reading a mind requires a Wisdom check with a bonus equal to the Compel spell’s MP, and the DC is the same that it would be for a Knowledge check."
What DC is that? A knowledge check as if the creature was making the check itself?
page 42 - second column, Mind Modify (4 MP) heading: "The knowledge or modification only lasts as long as the spell’s duration, and you must spend about one round concentrating to change the creature’s memory.
Left out the word "spend". Also, why does it say 'about' one round?
page 43 - last 2 words on the page: ".. or does it create an objects whole cloth"
Left out the word "an".
page 45 - first column, Moderate Wind (0 MP) heading: "See the DMG for information on wind forces."
Don't you mean "see the core rules"
page 45 - second column, Weather (2 MP) heading.
Does the rain generated by the weather disappear at the spell (as if by a Create food type spell)?
page 45 - second column, Create Lava heading: "You cannot create lava to surround a creater ..."
Left out the 'r'.
page 46 - first column, Create Lightning header: "Normal lighting deals 1d6 damage per round."
What is this supposed to mean? If someone is continually hit by lightning they only take 1d6 damage per round?
page 46-47 - Dilated Time headers: If someone uses Dilated Time, Long - everyone in the effect just ages for half a day? In other words, the time of day doesn't change nor do affected creatures notice any change in time?
page 47 - second column, first paragraph: "since these flames are actually solid, the wall must actually be supported by something..."
What does this mean? The flames have to wreathe a stone wall to be supported?
page 49 - first column, end of first paragraph: "As detailed in the Magical Skills section, a caster makes the check using his own ranks in the skill, or a number of ranks equal to the MP cost of the skill, whichever is higher."
It sounds like it should be "or a number of ranks equal to the MP cost of the SPELL".
page 50 - second column, last bullet on bulleted list: " Not counting general enhancements, the armor is a 3 MP effect,"
What is this saying? So what if the armor is a 3 MP effect, it doesn't seem to affect the rules at all, as the DC listed to dispel the armor is 11 + caster level 4, not 3.
page 50-51 - In the examples of using the Dispel Magic skill, it keeps changing the ranks that Ursus has in Dispel Magic. In the first few examples, and in the beginning of the book, Ursus is listed as having a +22 to his Dispel Magic checks. However, in certain examples (like example five) he is listed as having only a +16 to his Dispel Magic skill.
page 52 - end of first paragraph: "Finally, getting another mage’s signature spells for Dispel Magic can help greatly when you need to dispel magic you are unfamiliar with. "
What is this statement saying?
page 52 - second column, Fire Guard spell: "Make the Dispel Magic echeck..."
There is an e before the word "check".
page 56 - first column, Fatigue (2 dice) header: "fatigued creature gets an effective –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity, cannot run or charge."
Left out an 'and' by "Dexterity, [and] cannot run or charge".
page 56-57 - In the Crystal, Earth, and Metal categories it says that these attacks deal bonus [damage type] damage - and to see the Nature heading for details. However, it does not seem to list the actual amount of bonus damage dealt by these attacks, either under their own heading or under the Nature heading.
page 58 - first column, Mild header: "The slime lasts can affect up to Medium creatures."
The word "lasts" doesn't belong here.
page 59 - first column, Arctic Blast spell: "This impact damage is not energy damage, so energy resistance does not protect against it, but DR does. A successful Reflex save halves this damage."
It appears like the reflex save only works against this (2d6 of) impact damage. However, given that there is no ranged touch attack for the 3d6 ice damage, the save should probably apply to that damage too.
page 59 - second column, Horrorstrike spell: "Developed by a vicious ghostly mage, this spell can be cast on the ethereal plane but still affect the material plane."
This spell uses the space side effect - which says that damage from this spell can only affect either the Material or Ethereal planes. Therefore, the text should probably read "can be cast on the ethereal plane but can only affect the material plane."
Thus ends the extent of my current proof-reading binge. These corrections should not be misconstrued as criticism for the book. I really like the Elements of Magic system and am just stating the areas that might need a quick change (IMHO).
page 28 - third paragraph under the "Spell Enhancements" heading-
"For example, if you cast Compel Humanoid 7/Evoke Fire 3/ Gen 2, you can spend no more than 7 MP on Compel enhancemenets, no more than 3 MP on Evoke enhancements, and no more than 2 MP on General enhancements."
Besides the left out "than" - this paragraph is a little unclear. It seems to be saying that if you cast a Compel Humanoid 7, you can't spend more than 7 MP on the spell. Isn't that kind of obvious? Also, the beginning "For example" serves to confuse, as the previous paragraph talked about TOTAL MP spent, rather than MP spent per spell list.
page 28 - second column, last full paragraph: "Also, if the spell has a large are of effect..." How large is considered large?
page 30 - first paragraph, when talking about using skills with spells cast not from their own knowledge: "In these cases, make your skill check as if you had ranks equal to the MP spent on Dispel Magic, or using your own ranks if that is higher."
Do you mean that when using any magical skill from an outsides source you instead use your ranks in Dispel Magic? Or your ranks in whatever skill is being used?
page 31 - second colum, under the heading of Damage Reduction, [Element]: "The spell provides DR that applies against against..."
Extra "against".
page 35 - first column, towards the end of the heading Binding, [Alignment] (3 MP): "If a creature attacks or otherwise deals damage to the bound creature, it is free to retaliate, but is still bound spatially. If you attack the bound creature, it is free entirely from the binding."
Does this mean that a casters allies can attack the creature, but the caster himself can not (without freeing the creature)?
page 37 - first column 3rd paragraph, towards the end: "Once a happiness, anger, fear, or confusion effect wears off, though, the creature will realize they were being influenced. Note that this only applies to happiness, anger, and confusion effects."
Should this be "only applies to happiness, anger, confusion, and fear effects?"
page 37 - second column, right above the Emotions heading: "If there is more than one creature in the area of effect, this spell affects those with the lowest Hit Dice first, until it reaches its Hit Dice Threshold. Creatures beyond the HD Threshold are not affected at all."
Does this mean that the spell will affect everything below the threshold? Or that it will only affect a number of hit dice equal to the threshold. The text would support the second version, as it says it affects those with the lowest Hit Dice first, but it is not perfectly clear on this point.
page 42 - second column, Mind Read (4 MP) header: "Reading a mind requires a Wisdom check with a bonus equal to the Compel spell’s MP, and the DC is the same that it would be for a Knowledge check."
What DC is that? A knowledge check as if the creature was making the check itself?
page 42 - second column, Mind Modify (4 MP) heading: "The knowledge or modification only lasts as long as the spell’s duration, and you must spend about one round concentrating to change the creature’s memory.
Left out the word "spend". Also, why does it say 'about' one round?
page 43 - last 2 words on the page: ".. or does it create an objects whole cloth"
Left out the word "an".
page 45 - first column, Moderate Wind (0 MP) heading: "See the DMG for information on wind forces."
Don't you mean "see the core rules"
page 45 - second column, Weather (2 MP) heading.
Does the rain generated by the weather disappear at the spell (as if by a Create food type spell)?
page 45 - second column, Create Lava heading: "You cannot create lava to surround a creater ..."
Left out the 'r'.
page 46 - first column, Create Lightning header: "Normal lighting deals 1d6 damage per round."
What is this supposed to mean? If someone is continually hit by lightning they only take 1d6 damage per round?
page 46-47 - Dilated Time headers: If someone uses Dilated Time, Long - everyone in the effect just ages for half a day? In other words, the time of day doesn't change nor do affected creatures notice any change in time?
page 47 - second column, first paragraph: "since these flames are actually solid, the wall must actually be supported by something..."
What does this mean? The flames have to wreathe a stone wall to be supported?
page 49 - first column, end of first paragraph: "As detailed in the Magical Skills section, a caster makes the check using his own ranks in the skill, or a number of ranks equal to the MP cost of the skill, whichever is higher."
It sounds like it should be "or a number of ranks equal to the MP cost of the SPELL".
page 50 - second column, last bullet on bulleted list: " Not counting general enhancements, the armor is a 3 MP effect,"
What is this saying? So what if the armor is a 3 MP effect, it doesn't seem to affect the rules at all, as the DC listed to dispel the armor is 11 + caster level 4, not 3.
page 50-51 - In the examples of using the Dispel Magic skill, it keeps changing the ranks that Ursus has in Dispel Magic. In the first few examples, and in the beginning of the book, Ursus is listed as having a +22 to his Dispel Magic checks. However, in certain examples (like example five) he is listed as having only a +16 to his Dispel Magic skill.
page 52 - end of first paragraph: "Finally, getting another mage’s signature spells for Dispel Magic can help greatly when you need to dispel magic you are unfamiliar with. "
What is this statement saying?
page 52 - second column, Fire Guard spell: "Make the Dispel Magic echeck..."
There is an e before the word "check".
page 56 - first column, Fatigue (2 dice) header: "fatigued creature gets an effective –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity, cannot run or charge."
Left out an 'and' by "Dexterity, [and] cannot run or charge".
page 56-57 - In the Crystal, Earth, and Metal categories it says that these attacks deal bonus [damage type] damage - and to see the Nature heading for details. However, it does not seem to list the actual amount of bonus damage dealt by these attacks, either under their own heading or under the Nature heading.
page 58 - first column, Mild header: "The slime lasts can affect up to Medium creatures."
The word "lasts" doesn't belong here.
page 59 - first column, Arctic Blast spell: "This impact damage is not energy damage, so energy resistance does not protect against it, but DR does. A successful Reflex save halves this damage."
It appears like the reflex save only works against this (2d6 of) impact damage. However, given that there is no ranged touch attack for the 3d6 ice damage, the save should probably apply to that damage too.
page 59 - second column, Horrorstrike spell: "Developed by a vicious ghostly mage, this spell can be cast on the ethereal plane but still affect the material plane."
This spell uses the space side effect - which says that damage from this spell can only affect either the Material or Ethereal planes. Therefore, the text should probably read "can be cast on the ethereal plane but can only affect the material plane."
Thus ends the extent of my current proof-reading binge. These corrections should not be misconstrued as criticism for the book. I really like the Elements of Magic system and am just stating the areas that might need a quick change (IMHO).
Last edited:
RangerWickett
Legend
Blue mage for hire2 said:
Rather interesting. A few quick revisions, though. While it is true that you have to spend at least 1 MP on any spell list you use (unless it's the only spell list in the spell), you don't actually have to buy any of the listed enhancements if the spell list's description has an inherent ability. For instance, Create Space lets you automatically create a pocket dimension equal to the size of the area of effect. If you were casting a simple spell, such as Create Space 0/Gen 1, you could create a pocket of space, 10-ft. radius. Since this is a complex spell with multiple spell lists, you have to spend at least 1 MP on Create Space, but you don't need to buy the 'elemental object' enhancement. You'd use that enhancement if you wanted a solid object, such as, say, a sword made out of 'space.' An odd concept, sure, but that's what that particular enhancement is for.
You make mention of 'closing' the extradimensional space. How? You can only close the entrance if you are inside the pocket dimension yourself, and I'd imagine you wouldn't want to trap yourself in there with the Evoke Space damage.
While the rules don't prohibit some of the stuff in the spell, it seems a little eclectic, so as a GM I'd probably suggest you pare it down a bit. There are a few too many things going on at once. Normally you can only have one target in any given spell, and in this spell the 'target' is the spot you create the extradimensional pocket at. I'd be okay with you also having the bull rush effect or the forced teleport effect, but if you want both, you need to buy the Move Force enhancement twice, because you're using it two different ways. You can either use Move Force for combat manuevers, or for forcibly flying/teleporting/etc. a target.
One final suggestion - the enduring damage from Evoke spells is best used on targets who are mobile. If you're trapping someone in an enclosed space as with this spell, you're mostly better off with something like Create Fire to just fill the pocket dimension with fire (or acid, or lightning, vel cetera). The drawback is that the creature has a chance of escaping, but if they don't escape, you can potentially deal more damage. 4 MP buys a total of 10d6 over the course of a minute with Evoke, or 1 MP buys 100d6 if you can trap someone in the same spot for ten minutes. Sure, his friends might help him escape, or he could destroy the barrier, or planeshift out, but it's still generally better to fill an area with created damaging matter than evoked energy.
Still, this is a really complicated spell, and you got pretty close to having everything right for the book only being out for four days. Nicely done. With a slight revision, this spell looks like:
Deadly Displacement
Create Space 1/Create Metal 1/Create Lava 1/Move Force 2/Gen 4
Total MP: 9
Range: Short (30 ft.)
Duration: 10 minutes
Area: 10-ft. radius
Saving Throw: None
This spell is one of the most well-kept secrets of Duhamel, the Master of Space (if not Time), and he reserves it only for important enemies, least someone figures it out. First, the spell creates an extradimensional gate behind the target (who can be in 30 ft. of the caster). This gate leads to a pocket of space 10 feet wide, filled with baking lava, which deals 1d6 damage each round to anyone inside the pocket dimension. For the spell's duration, you control an invisible hand of force (Str 25) that can be used for bull rushes. Typically, this is used to push the target into the pocket dimension.
As soon as a creature enters the pocket dimension, the entrance is surrounded by a thick wall of metal, one foot thick (10 hardness, 360 hp). The spell lasts ten minutes, long enough to deal hundreds of points of damage if the creature cannot free itself from this tiny hell.
Costs: 1 MP pocket dimension, 1 MP metal object (wall), 1 MP normal lava, 2 MP Effective strength 25, 1 MP Short range, 1 MP 10-foot area, 1 MP duration, 1 MP contingency (creation of metal wall).
Hmm. From what I understand, this spell first has a burst of 3d6 damage, and then it does an extra 1d6 damage each round, but you have to move the area around? It's possible to make this work a little more smoothly. Since you're picking the 'discerning' enhancement, you can choose to have the spell anchor to each creature in the area of effect, meaning you don't have to concentrate to move it.
Basically, you cast the spell, and choose your targets in the area of effect. Each target gets a Reflex save for half of 3d6 damage, and then each round thereafter for a minute, no matter where they go or if they split up, they have to make another Reflex save or take 1d6 more damage.
Grudgeholder
Evoke Force 6/Gen 3
Total MP: 9
Range: Short (30 ft.)
Duration: 1 minute
Saving Throw: Reflex half
When you cast this spell, pick up to nine targets, all of which must be within range and must fit within a 10-ft. radius. Each target takes 4d6* points of force damage (Reflex half), and is thereafter harried by whirling bursts of energy. Each round, for the rest of the spell's duration, each creature takes an additional 1d6 force damage (Reflex half). This spell affects both corporeal and incorporeal creatures.
Costs: 2 MP extra damage, 4 MP enduring damage (1 minute), 1 MP range, 1 MP duration, 1 MP discerning.
*It does 4d6 damage the first round, not 3d6. The first 1d6 is a free effect from using Evoke, and the 2 MP spent on extra damage do +2d6 damage. Then the enduring damage does 1d6 each round, including the first.
Well, the spell is perfectly fine, but the Spell Resistance isn't terribly useful at high levels. Anyone you'd be fighting at that level wouldn't even have to roll to beat SR 12.
I really like the first two spells. You could have a lot of fun with them. In fact, I think I'll start a thread for people to post spells.
RangerWickett
Legend
I only started proofreading in the middle of the document, but here's what I came up with as far as typos, unclear areas, etc: (Changes are in bold)
page 28 - third paragraph under the "Spell Enhancements" heading-
"For example, if you cast Compel Humanoid 7/Evoke Fire 3/ Gen 2, you can spend no more than 7 MP on Compel enhancemenets, no more than 3 MP on Evoke enhancements, and no more than 2 MP on General enhancements."
Besides the left out "than" - this paragraph is a little unclear. It seems to be saying that if you cast a Compel Humanoid 7, you can't spend more than 7 MP on the spell. Isn't that kind of obvious? Also, the beginning "For example" serves to confuse, as the previous paragraph talked about TOTAL MP spent, rather than MP spent per spell list.
Ah, good point. Yeah, it’s a little out of place there.
page 28 - second column, last full paragraph: "Also, if the spell has a large are of effect..." How large is considered large?
It’s supposed to mean that if the spell has an area of effect that affects more than one target (i.e., usually larger than just the basic 5 ft.), you can use discerning to have the spell stick to the targets you choose, rather than having the area of effect stay in one spot.
page 30 - first paragraph, when talking about using skills with spells cast not from their own knowledge: "In these cases, make your skill check as if you had ranks equal to the MP spent on Dispel Magic, or using your own ranks if that is higher."
Do you mean that when using any magical skill from an outsides source you instead use your ranks in Dispel Magic? Or your ranks in whatever skill is being used?
Yes, it should be ‘make the skill check as if you had ranks equal to the MP spent on the magical skill, or your own ranks if that is highter.’ It was a copy/paste error, because the problem of “what happens when you use someone else’s magical skill” first came up with Dispel Magic. Dispelling got a lot of playtesting in my local group because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t being unfair and making it too easy or hard. There are probably a lot more cool things available with that skill than with any other.
page 31 - second colum, under the heading of Damage Reduction, [Element]: "The spell provides DR that applies against against..."
Extra "against".
page 35 - first column, towards the end of the heading Binding, [Alignment] (3 MP): "If a creature attacks or otherwise deals damage to the bound creature, it is free to retaliate, but is still bound spatially. If you attack the bound creature, it is free entirely from the binding."
Does this mean that a casters allies can attack the creature, but the caster himself can not (without freeing the creature)?
Correct. If I bind a demon, and Bob my buddy attacks the demon, the demon can counterattack against Bob, but it can’t attack me, nor can it leave the area of effect. If I attack the demon, we’re screwed.
page 37 - first column 3rd paragraph, towards the end: "Once a happiness, anger, fear, or confusion effect wears off, though, the creature will realize they were being influenced. Note that this only applies to happiness, anger, and confusion effects."
Should this be "only applies to happiness, anger, confusion, and fear effects?"
Yep. My error.
page 37 - second column, right above the Emotions heading: "If there is more than one creature in the area of effect, this spell affects those with the lowest Hit Dice first, until it reaches its Hit Dice Threshold. Creatures beyond the HD Threshold are not affected at all."
Does this mean that the spell will affect everything below the threshold? Or that it will only affect a number of hit dice equal to the threshold. The text would support the second version, as it says it affects those with the lowest Hit Dice first, but it is not perfectly clear on this point.
It works like the core sleep spell works. If your HD threshold is 14, and you’re targeting an area filled with eight 1-HD goblin thugs, two 4-HD goblin cleric, a 6-HD goblin rogue, an 8-HD goblin blackguard, and a 20-HD goblin ranger, you’d affect the thugs and one of the shamans (total of 12 HD), but you wouldn’t affect the other shaman, the rogue, the blackguard, or the ranger. If you had just targeted the ranger individually, though, he’d be affected, but he’d have a +6 bonus to his save because his HD is above your threshold.
page 42 - second column, Mind Read (4 MP) header: "Reading a mind requires a Wisdom check with a bonus equal to the Compel spell’s MP, and the DC is the same that it would be for a Knowledge check."
What DC is that? A knowledge check as if the creature was making the check itself?
Yeah, this one is odd. I couldn’t really think of a perfectly clear and concise way to explain what I wanted. Basically, your GM sets the Knowledge check as if you knew what the creature(s) you’re scanning knew. If one of them knows the information quite clearly, you don’t really have to make the check.
For instance, if you’re scanning a bunch of dark Elf soldiers for the name of their commander, you wouldn’t need to make a check. If you wanted to know about how their drow city government works, though, you’d need to make a pseudo-Knowledge (local) check. The GM might decide that it’s not a very obscure piece of information in the soldier’s minds, so the DC’s just 15. If you wanted to know where the secret entrance to House Bamboozle is, it might be a Knowledge (local) DC 40 check. The soldiers might not even realize they know it, but you could ferret out the information with a good roll.
I hope that’s a little clearer.
page 42 - second column, Mind Modify (4 MP) heading: "The knowledge or modification only lasts as long as the spell’s duration, and you must spend about one round concentrating to change the creature’s memory.
Left out the word "spend". Also, why does it say 'about' one round?
It’s supposed to give GMs a little leeway. The player says, “I want to make him think he’s a duck,” and the GM says, “That’ll take a bit several minutes.” The player says, “Okay, instead, I want to make him think I’m a rich nobleman from the city of Freeport, and that a few years ago I lent him money when we was down on his luck, and that he said he’d repay the favor,” and the GM says, “That will still take two rounds, about as long as it took you to say it.” The player finally says, “Okay, instead, I want to make him think I’m a duck, and that I never attacked him,” and the GM says, “Okay.”
The rule should more accurately say: “The knowledge or modification only lasts as long as the spell’s duration, and you must spend about one round concentrating for every piece of information or event you change. Extremely complicated and detailed memories may take slightly longer to create, at the GM’s discretion. In general, if it takes more than a minute to explain what the memory is, it should take several rounds to implant the memory.”
page 43 - last 2 words on the page: ".. or does it create an objects whole cloth"
Left out the word "an".
No, I didn’t. “Create objects” is fine as is, isn’t it?
page 45 - first column, Moderate Wind (0 MP) heading: "See the DMG for information on wind forces."
Don't you mean "see the core rules"
I suppose that’d be more accurate, since you could see the core rules of D&D, or D20 Modern, but WotC now wants folks to use book abbreviations, instead of the old way of ‘Core Rulebook II’ and such.
page 45 - second column, Weather (2 MP) heading.
Does the rain generated by the weather disappear at the spell (as if by a Create food type spell)?
Nope. You actually manipulate the atmosphere to create the appropriate weather. Yes, you can screw with ecosystems this way. Just assume that the extra cost of making the created precipitation endure is rolled in with the cost of creating the weather.
page 45 - second column, Create Lava heading: "You cannot create lava to surround a creater ..."
Left out the 'r'.
Actually, I left out more than that. It should be ‘surround a creature.’ Oops.
page 46 - first column, Create Lightning header: "Normal lighting deals 1d6 damage per round."
What is this supposed to mean? If someone is continually hit by lightning they only take 1d6 damage per round?
It’s more like sparks of electricity. The same way that created ‘lava’ is more accurately ‘hot rocks’ instead of ‘molten rock,’ created ‘lightning’ is just ‘electricity.’ It’s, like, low voltage, or amperage, or something. This is for the sake of balance. If you want lightning that really hurts, use Evoke Lightning.
page 46-47 - Dilated Time headers: If someone uses Dilated Time, Long - everyone in the effect just ages for half a day? In other words, the time of day doesn't change nor do affected creatures notice any change in time?
Correct. It just makes that little pocket of the world age half a day in an instant. It’s nice when people are exposed to hazardous situations. Someone falls into a vat of acid, you hit them with dilate time, and if they fail their save, they dissolve before your eyes.
page 47 - second column, first paragraph: "since these flames are actually solid, the wall must actually be supported by something..."
What does this mean? The flames have to wreathe a stone wall to be supported?
Not exactly. It means you can’t create a bubble of solid fire floating in mid air. Basically, the wall has to obey most laws of physics as if it were a solid object, meaning it needs to rest on the ground, and that a large enough creature could theoretically move it. Just imagine a normal stone wall, and now make it a little easier to cut through, but be on fire.
page 49 - first column, end of first paragraph: "As detailed in the Magical Skills section, a caster makes the check using his own ranks in the skill, or a number of ranks equal to the MP cost of the skill, whichever is higher."
It sounds like it should be "or a number of ranks equal to the MP cost of the SPELL".
Should be “or a number of ranks equal to the MP spent on the skill.” So if, for this spell, I spend 5 MP on Dispel Magic and write down the spell, you can cast the spell as if you have at least 5 ranks of Dispel Magic.
page 50 - second column, last bullet on bulleted list: " Not counting general enhancements, the armor is a 3 MP effect,"
What is this saying? So what if the armor is a 3 MP effect, it doesn't seem to affect the rules at all, as the DC listed to dispel the armor is 11 + caster level 4, not 3.
The armor is a 3 MP effect, which means that to dispel it, you’d have to either spend 3 MP, or increase the DC of the check by +3. Some of that paragraph is extraneous, but the intent was that, even though it’s just a 3-MP effect, you can’t dispel it because you have no MP left. To be more precise, that bullet entry should say:
* 18 for the armor (11 + caster level 4 + 3 not enough MP). Even though Ursus could not fail this check, he cannot dispel the armor’s magic because his dispel attempt has no MP left.
page 50-51 - In the examples of using the Dispel Magic skill, it keeps changing the ranks that Ursus has in Dispel Magic. In the first few examples, and in the beginning of the book, Ursus is listed as having a +22 to his Dispel Magic checks. However, in certain examples (like example five) he is listed as having only a +16 to his Dispel Magic skill.
He has a total of +22 to his checks, but only 16 ranks. Antimagic sets the SR based on how many ranks you have. Ursus has 16 ranks, a +3 bonus from Skill Focus, and a +3 Charisma bonus.
page 52 - end of first paragraph: "Finally, getting another mage’s signature spells for Dispel Magic can help greatly when you need to dispel magic you are unfamiliar with. "
What is this statement saying?
See the first section on Page 49. When you write down a Dispel Magic spell or set a Dispel Magic contingency spell, you include several spell lists that the spell ‘knows,’ for the purposes of setting the Dispel check DC. Even if I don’t know Compel Humanoid, if I find a written down spell that was designed to dispel Compel Humanoid, the DC is easier than if I used, say, a spell written down that was designed to dispel Evoke Fire. I could still try to use the antifire dispelling, but the DC would be increased by +10.
page 52 - second column, Fire Guard spell: "Make the Dispel Magic echeck..."
There is an e before the word "check".
page 56 - first column, Fatigue (2 dice) header: "fatigued creature gets an effective –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity, cannot run or charge."
Left out an 'and' by "Dexterity, [and] cannot run or charge".
page 56-57 - In the Crystal, Earth, and Metal categories it says that these attacks deal bonus [damage type] damage - and to see the Nature heading for details. However, it does not seem to list the actual amount of bonus damage dealt by these attacks, either under their own heading or under the Nature heading.
Ah, okay. My brain was glitching when I wrote that. There’s no bonus damage, but rather, as a benefit, these Evoke spells deal piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning damage. So you could, for example, use Evoke Earth to hurl bludgeoning stones and deal extra damage against glass objects, since the PHB suggests that bludgeoning attacks could ignore the hardness of glass, or could deal double damage.
page 58 - first column, Mild header: "The slime lasts can affect up to Medium creatures."
The word "lasts" doesn't belong here.
page 59 - first column, Arctic Blast spell: "This impact damage is not energy damage, so energy resistance does not protect against it, but DR does. A successful Reflex save halves this damage."
It appears like the reflex save only works against this (2d6 of) impact damage. However, given that there is no ranged touch attack for the 3d6 ice damage, the save should probably apply to that damage too.
Yeah, the reflex save sentence needs to be somewhere else. The save does apply to the whole spell. It was just a problem with trying to put two qualifiers on the same effect.
page 59 - second column, Horrorstrike spell: "Developed by a vicious ghostly mage, this spell can be cast on the ethereal plane but still affect the material plane."
This spell uses the space side effect - which says that damage from this spell can only affect either the Material or Ethereal planes. Therefore, the text should probably read "can be cast on the ethereal plane but can only affect the material plane."
When you cast the spell, you choose whether to affect ethereal or material. However, the spell can only affect one at a time, and that isn’t spelled out perfectly clearly.
Thanks for the read-through. It's nice to get some fresh eyes looking at this. We'll try to have a FAQ out in a few weeks, and the more frequently you ask questions, the better. *grin*
page 28 - third paragraph under the "Spell Enhancements" heading-
"For example, if you cast Compel Humanoid 7/Evoke Fire 3/ Gen 2, you can spend no more than 7 MP on Compel enhancemenets, no more than 3 MP on Evoke enhancements, and no more than 2 MP on General enhancements."
Besides the left out "than" - this paragraph is a little unclear. It seems to be saying that if you cast a Compel Humanoid 7, you can't spend more than 7 MP on the spell. Isn't that kind of obvious? Also, the beginning "For example" serves to confuse, as the previous paragraph talked about TOTAL MP spent, rather than MP spent per spell list.
Ah, good point. Yeah, it’s a little out of place there.
page 28 - second column, last full paragraph: "Also, if the spell has a large are of effect..." How large is considered large?
It’s supposed to mean that if the spell has an area of effect that affects more than one target (i.e., usually larger than just the basic 5 ft.), you can use discerning to have the spell stick to the targets you choose, rather than having the area of effect stay in one spot.
page 30 - first paragraph, when talking about using skills with spells cast not from their own knowledge: "In these cases, make your skill check as if you had ranks equal to the MP spent on Dispel Magic, or using your own ranks if that is higher."
Do you mean that when using any magical skill from an outsides source you instead use your ranks in Dispel Magic? Or your ranks in whatever skill is being used?
Yes, it should be ‘make the skill check as if you had ranks equal to the MP spent on the magical skill, or your own ranks if that is highter.’ It was a copy/paste error, because the problem of “what happens when you use someone else’s magical skill” first came up with Dispel Magic. Dispelling got a lot of playtesting in my local group because I wanted to make sure I wasn’t being unfair and making it too easy or hard. There are probably a lot more cool things available with that skill than with any other.
page 31 - second colum, under the heading of Damage Reduction, [Element]: "The spell provides DR that applies against against..."
Extra "against".
page 35 - first column, towards the end of the heading Binding, [Alignment] (3 MP): "If a creature attacks or otherwise deals damage to the bound creature, it is free to retaliate, but is still bound spatially. If you attack the bound creature, it is free entirely from the binding."
Does this mean that a casters allies can attack the creature, but the caster himself can not (without freeing the creature)?
Correct. If I bind a demon, and Bob my buddy attacks the demon, the demon can counterattack against Bob, but it can’t attack me, nor can it leave the area of effect. If I attack the demon, we’re screwed.
page 37 - first column 3rd paragraph, towards the end: "Once a happiness, anger, fear, or confusion effect wears off, though, the creature will realize they were being influenced. Note that this only applies to happiness, anger, and confusion effects."
Should this be "only applies to happiness, anger, confusion, and fear effects?"
Yep. My error.
page 37 - second column, right above the Emotions heading: "If there is more than one creature in the area of effect, this spell affects those with the lowest Hit Dice first, until it reaches its Hit Dice Threshold. Creatures beyond the HD Threshold are not affected at all."
Does this mean that the spell will affect everything below the threshold? Or that it will only affect a number of hit dice equal to the threshold. The text would support the second version, as it says it affects those with the lowest Hit Dice first, but it is not perfectly clear on this point.
It works like the core sleep spell works. If your HD threshold is 14, and you’re targeting an area filled with eight 1-HD goblin thugs, two 4-HD goblin cleric, a 6-HD goblin rogue, an 8-HD goblin blackguard, and a 20-HD goblin ranger, you’d affect the thugs and one of the shamans (total of 12 HD), but you wouldn’t affect the other shaman, the rogue, the blackguard, or the ranger. If you had just targeted the ranger individually, though, he’d be affected, but he’d have a +6 bonus to his save because his HD is above your threshold.
page 42 - second column, Mind Read (4 MP) header: "Reading a mind requires a Wisdom check with a bonus equal to the Compel spell’s MP, and the DC is the same that it would be for a Knowledge check."
What DC is that? A knowledge check as if the creature was making the check itself?
Yeah, this one is odd. I couldn’t really think of a perfectly clear and concise way to explain what I wanted. Basically, your GM sets the Knowledge check as if you knew what the creature(s) you’re scanning knew. If one of them knows the information quite clearly, you don’t really have to make the check.
For instance, if you’re scanning a bunch of dark Elf soldiers for the name of their commander, you wouldn’t need to make a check. If you wanted to know about how their drow city government works, though, you’d need to make a pseudo-Knowledge (local) check. The GM might decide that it’s not a very obscure piece of information in the soldier’s minds, so the DC’s just 15. If you wanted to know where the secret entrance to House Bamboozle is, it might be a Knowledge (local) DC 40 check. The soldiers might not even realize they know it, but you could ferret out the information with a good roll.
I hope that’s a little clearer.
page 42 - second column, Mind Modify (4 MP) heading: "The knowledge or modification only lasts as long as the spell’s duration, and you must spend about one round concentrating to change the creature’s memory.
Left out the word "spend". Also, why does it say 'about' one round?
It’s supposed to give GMs a little leeway. The player says, “I want to make him think he’s a duck,” and the GM says, “That’ll take a bit several minutes.” The player says, “Okay, instead, I want to make him think I’m a rich nobleman from the city of Freeport, and that a few years ago I lent him money when we was down on his luck, and that he said he’d repay the favor,” and the GM says, “That will still take two rounds, about as long as it took you to say it.” The player finally says, “Okay, instead, I want to make him think I’m a duck, and that I never attacked him,” and the GM says, “Okay.”
The rule should more accurately say: “The knowledge or modification only lasts as long as the spell’s duration, and you must spend about one round concentrating for every piece of information or event you change. Extremely complicated and detailed memories may take slightly longer to create, at the GM’s discretion. In general, if it takes more than a minute to explain what the memory is, it should take several rounds to implant the memory.”
page 43 - last 2 words on the page: ".. or does it create an objects whole cloth"
Left out the word "an".
No, I didn’t. “Create objects” is fine as is, isn’t it?
page 45 - first column, Moderate Wind (0 MP) heading: "See the DMG for information on wind forces."
Don't you mean "see the core rules"
I suppose that’d be more accurate, since you could see the core rules of D&D, or D20 Modern, but WotC now wants folks to use book abbreviations, instead of the old way of ‘Core Rulebook II’ and such.
page 45 - second column, Weather (2 MP) heading.
Does the rain generated by the weather disappear at the spell (as if by a Create food type spell)?
Nope. You actually manipulate the atmosphere to create the appropriate weather. Yes, you can screw with ecosystems this way. Just assume that the extra cost of making the created precipitation endure is rolled in with the cost of creating the weather.
page 45 - second column, Create Lava heading: "You cannot create lava to surround a creater ..."
Left out the 'r'.
Actually, I left out more than that. It should be ‘surround a creature.’ Oops.
page 46 - first column, Create Lightning header: "Normal lighting deals 1d6 damage per round."
What is this supposed to mean? If someone is continually hit by lightning they only take 1d6 damage per round?
It’s more like sparks of electricity. The same way that created ‘lava’ is more accurately ‘hot rocks’ instead of ‘molten rock,’ created ‘lightning’ is just ‘electricity.’ It’s, like, low voltage, or amperage, or something. This is for the sake of balance. If you want lightning that really hurts, use Evoke Lightning.
page 46-47 - Dilated Time headers: If someone uses Dilated Time, Long - everyone in the effect just ages for half a day? In other words, the time of day doesn't change nor do affected creatures notice any change in time?
Correct. It just makes that little pocket of the world age half a day in an instant. It’s nice when people are exposed to hazardous situations. Someone falls into a vat of acid, you hit them with dilate time, and if they fail their save, they dissolve before your eyes.
page 47 - second column, first paragraph: "since these flames are actually solid, the wall must actually be supported by something..."
What does this mean? The flames have to wreathe a stone wall to be supported?
Not exactly. It means you can’t create a bubble of solid fire floating in mid air. Basically, the wall has to obey most laws of physics as if it were a solid object, meaning it needs to rest on the ground, and that a large enough creature could theoretically move it. Just imagine a normal stone wall, and now make it a little easier to cut through, but be on fire.
page 49 - first column, end of first paragraph: "As detailed in the Magical Skills section, a caster makes the check using his own ranks in the skill, or a number of ranks equal to the MP cost of the skill, whichever is higher."
It sounds like it should be "or a number of ranks equal to the MP cost of the SPELL".
Should be “or a number of ranks equal to the MP spent on the skill.” So if, for this spell, I spend 5 MP on Dispel Magic and write down the spell, you can cast the spell as if you have at least 5 ranks of Dispel Magic.
page 50 - second column, last bullet on bulleted list: " Not counting general enhancements, the armor is a 3 MP effect,"
What is this saying? So what if the armor is a 3 MP effect, it doesn't seem to affect the rules at all, as the DC listed to dispel the armor is 11 + caster level 4, not 3.
The armor is a 3 MP effect, which means that to dispel it, you’d have to either spend 3 MP, or increase the DC of the check by +3. Some of that paragraph is extraneous, but the intent was that, even though it’s just a 3-MP effect, you can’t dispel it because you have no MP left. To be more precise, that bullet entry should say:
* 18 for the armor (11 + caster level 4 + 3 not enough MP). Even though Ursus could not fail this check, he cannot dispel the armor’s magic because his dispel attempt has no MP left.
page 50-51 - In the examples of using the Dispel Magic skill, it keeps changing the ranks that Ursus has in Dispel Magic. In the first few examples, and in the beginning of the book, Ursus is listed as having a +22 to his Dispel Magic checks. However, in certain examples (like example five) he is listed as having only a +16 to his Dispel Magic skill.
He has a total of +22 to his checks, but only 16 ranks. Antimagic sets the SR based on how many ranks you have. Ursus has 16 ranks, a +3 bonus from Skill Focus, and a +3 Charisma bonus.
page 52 - end of first paragraph: "Finally, getting another mage’s signature spells for Dispel Magic can help greatly when you need to dispel magic you are unfamiliar with. "
What is this statement saying?
See the first section on Page 49. When you write down a Dispel Magic spell or set a Dispel Magic contingency spell, you include several spell lists that the spell ‘knows,’ for the purposes of setting the Dispel check DC. Even if I don’t know Compel Humanoid, if I find a written down spell that was designed to dispel Compel Humanoid, the DC is easier than if I used, say, a spell written down that was designed to dispel Evoke Fire. I could still try to use the antifire dispelling, but the DC would be increased by +10.
page 52 - second column, Fire Guard spell: "Make the Dispel Magic echeck..."
There is an e before the word "check".
page 56 - first column, Fatigue (2 dice) header: "fatigued creature gets an effective –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity, cannot run or charge."
Left out an 'and' by "Dexterity, [and] cannot run or charge".
page 56-57 - In the Crystal, Earth, and Metal categories it says that these attacks deal bonus [damage type] damage - and to see the Nature heading for details. However, it does not seem to list the actual amount of bonus damage dealt by these attacks, either under their own heading or under the Nature heading.
Ah, okay. My brain was glitching when I wrote that. There’s no bonus damage, but rather, as a benefit, these Evoke spells deal piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning damage. So you could, for example, use Evoke Earth to hurl bludgeoning stones and deal extra damage against glass objects, since the PHB suggests that bludgeoning attacks could ignore the hardness of glass, or could deal double damage.
page 58 - first column, Mild header: "The slime lasts can affect up to Medium creatures."
The word "lasts" doesn't belong here.
page 59 - first column, Arctic Blast spell: "This impact damage is not energy damage, so energy resistance does not protect against it, but DR does. A successful Reflex save halves this damage."
It appears like the reflex save only works against this (2d6 of) impact damage. However, given that there is no ranged touch attack for the 3d6 ice damage, the save should probably apply to that damage too.
Yeah, the reflex save sentence needs to be somewhere else. The save does apply to the whole spell. It was just a problem with trying to put two qualifiers on the same effect.
page 59 - second column, Horrorstrike spell: "Developed by a vicious ghostly mage, this spell can be cast on the ethereal plane but still affect the material plane."
This spell uses the space side effect - which says that damage from this spell can only affect either the Material or Ethereal planes. Therefore, the text should probably read "can be cast on the ethereal plane but can only affect the material plane."
When you cast the spell, you choose whether to affect ethereal or material. However, the spell can only affect one at a time, and that isn’t spelled out perfectly clearly.
Thanks for the read-through. It's nice to get some fresh eyes looking at this. We'll try to have a FAQ out in a few weeks, and the more frequently you ask questions, the better. *grin*
PugioilAudacio
First Post
Actually, I think this system lends itself perfectly to ritual type magics. I'm thinking of something that will allow a bunch of casters to group together and raise the total limit on Magic Points spent.
Yuppers
/sage nod
Indeed, I was thinking of that myself. And it is also great for Epic types of magic. You don't have to use a silly seed system, since you can use a progression of the current system that will still provide additional power.
I think the Circle Magic class abilities of Red Wizards and Hathrans from FR would work better as EoM:R ritual magic. The question, though, is how many points each secondary caster can contribute to the casting. They can't contribute their total MP limit for a single spell, I think, or things would quickly get out of hand. I have some ideas in that direction, but I can't decide how much more powerful rituals should be than normal magic.
/sage nod
Indeed, I was thinking of that myself. And it is also great for Epic types of magic. You don't have to use a silly seed system, since you can use a progression of the current system that will still provide additional power.
I think the Circle Magic class abilities of Red Wizards and Hathrans from FR would work better as EoM:R ritual magic. The question, though, is how many points each secondary caster can contribute to the casting. They can't contribute their total MP limit for a single spell, I think, or things would quickly get out of hand. I have some ideas in that direction, but I can't decide how much more powerful rituals should be than normal magic.
PugioilAudacio
First Post
Well I was thinking of doing something like EL is handled. Assign each caster a "CR" (caster rating) equal to their Spellcasting level. Then, just calculate total MP allowed per spell as if you would calculate EL. For instance, 4 6th Spellcaster level people would be able to cast a spell with a total MP of 10.
) equal to their Spellcasting level. Then, just calculate total MP allowed per spell as if you would calculate EL. For instance, 4 6th Spellcaster level people would be able to cast a spell with a total MP of 10.Similar Threads
