Elements of Magic: Questions for the Designer

[RangerWickett]

Flare
Evoke Fire 10/ Hex Water 8/ Gen 2
Total MP: 20
Range: short (30 ft.)
Duration: 10 minutes
This Fiery spell deals 11d6 points of damage to the target, the Flames of Flare are super-hot, and completely ignores fire resistance. Indeed, the potency of Flare is such that they target doesn't recover his fire resistance until 10 minutes have passed.

You should make a note that the target has to fail its Will save to be affected by the Abjure, and that it takes half damage from the Evoke spell if it succeeds a Reflex save. Also, you're probably better off having the spell just last one minute, but do 12d6 damage.

Meteor
Evoke Earth 12/ Evoke Lava 1/ Gen 7
Total MP: 20
Area: 150 ft. cone.
Duration: 1 minute
Calling a Meteor storm down to Earth, this spell does 9d6 points of Bludgeoning damage to everything in a 150 ft long Cone each round for one minute. All objects and the ground itself are baked for the duration of the spell, and deal 1d6 damage to all who are in contact with them. 8 Mp extra Damage, 1 MP Lava side effect, 4 Mp enduring damage, 6 MP 150 ft. Cone, 1 Mp duration.

First of all, you don't need to pay any MP to get a one-minute duration spell. Second, you misunderstand enduring damage. Each 4 MP you spend will make it do 1d6 damage per round, for a minute. You cannot then add the 'extra damage' enhancement to make it deal 9d6 damage per round. You can buy enduring damage three times, for a total of 12 MP, so that you'll do 3d6 damage per round for a minute.

Enduring damage is useful for slowly wearing down a target. Over the course of that minute, you'll do more damage than you would have with a one-shot Evoke spell, but if it worked the way you have it, it'd be overpowered, with the possibility of doing 300 points of damage to a person, or more.

Ultima
Evoke Force 18/ Gen 2
Total MP: 20
Range: 30 ft.
Area: 10 ft. Burst
Duration: Instantaneous
This most awesome spell does 19d6 points of damage in a 10 ft. Burst. Its basically Anihalation in a bag. Simple enough. 18 Mp extra damage, 1 MP range, 1 MP duration

Why do you include a duration cost? You don't have to buy a duration unless you want the spell to last 10 minutes or more, and there's no reason this would last 10 minutes.

Might Guard
Abjure Nature 6/ Abjure Force 6/ Gen 2
Total MP: 14
Area of effect: 10 ft area, centered on you.
Duration: 10 minutes
A nice spell to have in a pinch, this grants DR 6 and an Energy Buffer against all types of energy, which fails if the damage exceeds 40 points. In short, it reduces damage done by non magical weapons and attacks by 6 and will totally block all damage by energy sources, as long as its under 40 damage. This effect lasts for ten minutes.

This spell may be a little weak, since that energy buffer will apply just once for the entire duration, and only once for the entire area of effect. If people in the area are all hit by one single attack, the buffer will stop the damage to each of them, but people are individually targeted, the buffer could be dropped quickly. Not horrible, though.

 

[Verequus]

A nice group casting concept - even functional with one man! But I have to calculate, if you followed your 41+-rule all the way up (after a certain point).

So you’re asking, basically, if you had a fire monster with a natural caster level of 5, and it cast a spell on you, would Abjure Fire give you a saving throw bonus against the spell? Yes. If the creature then took a level of Mage to have a caster level of 6, would Abjure Fire still protect against its spells?

I don’t know. It never came up. What do you think?

Is an improved natural caster level still a natural caster level? If yes, question solved. If no, then:

a) Are all spells affected by the improved caster level? If yes, it would mean that the spells become "muddied" by the improvement, but have still their basic nature. The corresponding mechanic: Calculate the percentage of natural caster level/improved caster level. Roll with a d% and if the result is in the percentage, the Abjure spell protects the target. For easier handling, the smooth translation can be changed to: Divide the natural caster level through 4 and round up to gain the quarter. Then calculate the four limits - (natural caster level) + quarter * (number of limit). For every limit, the improved caster level is higher, the percentage, that an Abjure spell can affect this spell is reduced by 25%. Effectively, if you have an improved caster level, which is the twice of your natural caster level, you aren't considered having a natural caster level.

b) Are all spells affected by the improved caster level? If no, then it could mean, that the caster can choose the source of his power. Having a 5/5, the caster could only use his class-improved caster level up to 5 MP, making low-level spells more invulnerable. If you say, that class-improved caster level are always on the top (the creature is simply more accustomed to use his own powers), then all upper-level spells are more invulnerable.

I like the quarter solution from a) - it is the best from both worlds, while being easy to maintain through having only percentages of 100%, 75%, 50%, 25% and 0%, which means only a extra die roll for a certain time and not forever (or until the chance isn't measurable with d%).

It’s easier to get a resistance to energy than it is to remove resistance. Not all effects of reversible spell lists are equal in cost.

If I am right, then this 35/40-issue is the only difference between both tables. If it should be more difficult, then it isn't there.

Page 44: "Elemental Object": "(2 MP for the area of effect, the base 2 MP for this enhancement, and then another 2 MP because of how much the area of effect costs)." The first 2 MP are for the enhancement Elemental Object.

I don’t know what you’re saying.

Look at the description - it says, you pay twice for the area of effect, but nothing for the ehancement Elemental Object, and that's wrong.

Page 48: "Area of Effect: Normally you’ll target only a single spell or effect with this skill, but sometimes you may want to dispel or counter every effect in an area, and thus you can purchase area of effect enhancements normally as with any spell." If a spell covers more area than the dispel spell can target, what happens?

You overlooked that question.

If you’re in the body, you’d have all your class-based hit dice, plus all the racial hit dice appropriate to that body. You’d have all that body’s appropriate abilities. Your GM will probably want to adjust your effective character level, but hey, if you manage to force your way into a dragon’s body, good for you.

What happens to my own ex-, su- and sp-abilities? If I interpret your statement correctly, then class-based abilities stay, while racial-based abilities are gone. Is this then better than a permanent Transform Dragon spell (except the dispelling issue and you have to fight a dragon)?

Snowstep lets you walk on snow or ice without making balance checks. Waterwalk lets you walk on water as if it were solid ground. Airwalk lets you walk on air as if it were solid ground. I thought that seemed obvious enough.

Snowstep wasn't so obvious - I would have thought, it would be like Trackless Step. But I haven't read the DMG regarding the balance check...

No, a 0 MP Transform Animal spell would let you turn a human into a cat, Transform Humanoid would let you turn into a goblin, and Transform Vermin would let you turn into a giant bee. You could not, however, use Transform Undead to turn a human into a zombie, because one is a life creature, and one is a death creature.

Somewhere in the first two chapters there was an example, which mentioned that problem. But not everyone has the already the mindset, that every creature belongs to an element, too, so a more explicit remainder would be great.

Edit: I found that explicit remainder - when I forget to look at the right place...

Can items created, which can use the item creation feats themselves? How about intelligent items? If creatures can be created through the Permanent Spell feat, why can the undead spawn other undead? Because of the multiplier effect of the item creation feat above, is the magic some kind of virulent? Can created creatures be resurrected? And there is no mentioning of the "Pay 5000 XP and get a Wish-like effect.".

I’m not quite clear about the question.

If you pay enough XP, then you can give away feats and then you can create items which can use not only signature spells but even spell lists and metamagic feats. So theoretically, I could create an Orb of Magic's Doom, which casts two permanent spells, which give the use of Spellcraft and Dispel Magic to everyone, who touches the Orb, can't I? And you never mentioned intelligent items. Should we use the DMG's Guide for that?

And to the undead - I asked myself: "Why can undead spawn undead without paying any XP, while the spawning is surely some kind of magic?" I figured, if the question in the paragraph above would be answered with "yes", then magic can be virulent like the GPL and it would explain my question in this paragraph. The question "Can be created creatures be resurrected?" and "There is no mentioning of the 'Pay 5000 XP and get a Wish-like effect.'." should be clear themselves.

I’m not very familiar with the Immortals Handbook.

Its author Upper_Krust is right in the following point: There should be no difference between a monster's CR and a character's CR. The last one's CR is simply his (E)CL, but the monster have usually a CR and a LA. Your "Strong Defenses" enhancement mentions, that the CR should be more regarded as the ECL, and U_K's CR system does exactly this thing - making the CR to the ECL. This means, that the CRs are usually one-third higher than the ones from the SRD. So if the CRs, I'm using already, include the defenses like directly assigned for a character, I don't need this enhancement, do I?

As for Transforming the untransformable, I never understood why plants can’t be transformed, but then again, I rarely use plant monsters. For your game, I’d suggest you keep the resistance, but maybe allow it if you include the ‘different element type’ enhancement.

Actually, I don't understand the restriction either. If it would be because of the immunities, a plant monster loses, then undead wouldn't be transformable, too. And if I already toss the Unentchantable stuff already in the bins, then I can kill that, too. That reminds me... *looks into the SRD*

"Immunities (Ex): Abominations are immune to polymorphing, petrification, or any form-altering attack. They are not subject to energy drain, ability drain, or ability damage. They are immune to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), and are immune to one of five energy types (specific to the abomination)."

If the fairest solution is a new spell list, then welcome Transform Abomination!

I didn’t want to allow you to increase mental ability scores [through Transform].

Then we have to use Infuse [Element] for that?

"Animate: If this enhancement is chosen for a transformation of one creature into another, the transformed creature must make a Will save (same DC as the rest of the spell) or have its mind change so that it acts like the new creature."
A human turned into a celestial cat has then the instincts of a cat?

And yes, that’s pretty much what I was shooting for, with the warning that you should not let casters ‘research’ creatures that are inappropriate for their type. For instance, no humanoids with natural breath weapons.

But Monstrous Humanoids and Magical Beasts with breath weapons are allowed? But aren't all hybrids or bear-clawed warriors per se Monstrous Humanoids?

And can I decide while using a Transform spell the gender and racial features only in the normal range for the race like in the core rules?

 

[UoR11]

I haven't looked into d20 Modern for a long while. We're already mostly done with LA, and I'd rather get it out soon rather than take the time necessary before I'd feel comfortable gauging a proper power level in d20 Modern. Certainly a full caster level progression would not be balanced.

Okay, cool. As a first guess, I'd have the same requirements as the Mage advanced class in Modern, and simply use the first 10 levels of the Mage class from EoM. I'll be running a Modern game using this over the summer with any luck, so I'll let you know how it works out.

 

[Izerath]

Some initial kudos.

Ryan,

I know you asked for questions here but regardless, I want to say: Well done!

I purchased the first EoM release and found that the spirit of the rules were in the right place, but the system was clunky; So much so that I continued to use my own rules for just this type of magic. I've never been satisfied, even with my own rules. With that said, I have been scouring your new release and while I am not yet finished reading, I am pleased.

I want to commend you for breaking loose of the common "must be in levels" power rating. This is the one "stigma" I believe is holding back the industry as a whole. Nearly every author is concerned about "levels." I understand that old habits die hard, but in this case, your use of a "caster level" mechanic did the trick and opened up the possibilities for the system without having to work through the whole "levels stack/do not stack" issue. Bravo.

I am already taking notes on how to adapt my house rules (more like a core rulebook at this juncture with over 200 pages) to use EoMR as the core system for arcane spellcasting. Thank goodness EoMR is 100% OGL! (sans the 'names' of course!)

Second, I applaud your classification of core spells as "signature spells." I would love to see a web enhancement that classifies all of the existing core spells into the appropriate Action type/Effect categories. I don't believe complete conversion is required, since you can figure out the MP cost by doubling the spell level and subtracting one, but a translation like this would be well worth the effort to place each core spell under the most appropriate 'spell list'. Namely, I think it'd be super handy for those who buy EoMR. I know I'd love it, since I have to do this anyway! LOL!

Two recommendations: #1 I'd love to see a dedicated thread with player spell contributions, I noticed a few posted already here. #2 a web enhancement placing the core 'signature' spells into the associated spell lists by action type/effect.

Thanks for a good revision!

Ron Janik, a.k.a Izerath.

 

[Kemrain]

EoM Revised is great. Best < $10 I've ever spent on a DnD book.

Some questions:

I'm loving the Magic Item rules, but there are some things I'm not exactly sure about. I have a character who has some shape shifting ability, and it is awfully annoying that her equipment can't change with her. To this effect, I'm putting together a Ring of Change. Transform Nature 1, Trandform Metal 1, Gen 1 should be enough to make a wonderous item that can transform her armor, clothing, and weapons to fit her new form. Obviously, weapons made into non-weapon objects can't be used to attack effectively, and Armor changed into clothing wouldn't protect much at all, but if she changed an item, say her armor with a +1 Enhancement bonus, into say, Bracers, would they still confer the Enhancement bonus to AC? Also, since the ring is a perminant effect, would the changed equipment be permanant, too? Would permanant changes cost XP constantly? What type of action would changing an object be? (Transform Metal could be a great way to get around those long donning armor times.) Oh, and how should I price a Transform MEtal spell that made Iron into, say, Mithral.

If (since in our game Drow Adamantine weapons corrde in sunlight) I put an Abjure Light spell on a sword, to give it Energy Resistance (so it wouldn't turn to, um, Adamantine-Oxide), would the Energy Resistance apply to the wielder, too? If it does, and I have 2 Swords with that same enchantment on them, would they both count towards the number of Magic items I can use at once, since they don't stack and one is canceled out? Could they both be enchanted at once if they're both in the origional area of effect?

Is there a way to make a Magic Item that grants a bonus that will stack with other magic bonuses (asside from the Deflection/Enhancement bonuses to AC) for an increased cost?

- Kemrain the Curious

 

[Kemrain]

Looking at the Infuse spell list, it says you can Infuse an Element or an Alignment. However, looking at the spell list, I can't seem to find what, other than aligning to an Element or Alignment, Infuse Alignment, would do.

Now that I think about it, what would happen to an aligned Outsider, say a Demon, if they were Infused with Good and had their alignment overpowered by the spell?

Oh, and could you Abjure Good, for DR, with the Greater DR enhancement, aligned to Cold Iron, so the above Demon's Cold Iron or Good DR was made into simply Cold Iron DR?

- Kemrain the [Evil].

 

[Verequus]

Metamagic feats: Is the DC not increased through the extra paid MP? I didn't found a direct mentioning of that, but the example of Intense Spell implies it, along with core rules.

Can item creation with restrictions be less costly? How can items created which allow only a race or alignment, behave different, if used by members of different classes, or impose some kind of another restriction?

Transform Splitting Option: What happens to the memory of (killed) split beings? Does the transformed being know everything after the spell ends?

Are ritual magic spells handled equally in every regard to normal spells except their casting? Can metamagic feats applied to ritual spells?

Can Move Space be used to teleport into antimagic-fields? If yes, the normal SR check has to be done? Can an antimagic-field be dispelled?

Move Life, Spirit Wander: How can these souls be affected? And how can these affect anything?

"When the spell ends, extraplanar summoned creatures return whence they came, taking with them any items or injuries they received." This means, death is permanent, too?

What is the saving throw of Evoke Death 3/Evoke Fire 3? Two saving throws for each kind of damage? If you attack an incorporeal creature with Evoke Fire 3/Evoke Force 3, damages only Evoke Force 3 normally?

"When a creature changes form, it gains the new form’s Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, movement abilities, natural armor, and innate natural, extraordinary, spell-like, and supernatural abilities. The creature’s hit points also change to those of the new form, if the new form has more hit points." If I have 5th level character with 30 hp and Constitution of 18 and the character changes to a creature with a Con 10, what happens? Do I lose 20 hp first and compare then, if the new form has more than 10 hp, or are my minimum hp 30? And after looking into the teaser thread, I've found out, that I've asked, what happens to nonabilities like transforming into an undead, but the answer isn't in EoM.

"If you want permanent transformation, such as with a medusa’s gaze, you must use the Craft Permanent Spell feat." I wonder, why those medusas and basiliks don't have to pay for XP - because sp- and su-ablities don't pay XP usually?

After looking into the spell listing thread, I see that Kavyk had the same idea I had: Spells with entries, how to scale them. The EoM component structure lends itself for a quick powerup. Such entries would allow a GM to change spells on the fly or saying "That was a signature spell!". I dug my old proposition out and cleaned it up:

[Element]/[Alignment]ball
Minimum MP: 2
Evoke [Element]/[Aligment] 1/Gen 1
Range: Short (30 ft.)
Duration: Instanteous
Saving Throw: Reflex half, other for possible ambient side effects

This spell surrounds the target shortly with a ball of [Element]/[Alignment] and does 1d6 damage. Costs: 1 MP damage, 1 MP range.

Improvements:
Scalable damage: 1 MP for 1d6, can be from every element/alignment.
Increased range: 1 MP for Medium (150 ft.), 2 MP for Long (800 ft.).
Contingency: 1 MP for Short (10 minutes), 2 MP for Medium (one hour), used for delay or as trap trigger.

The improvement entries are the most likely used enhancements with included values, what will be changed, and if applicable, the upper range of the enhancement (there could be used more MPs on such an enhancement, but such situations would be rare) and specific use. This example defines not only a Fireball, but also a Delayed Blast Fireball and a Fire Trap in all varieties, including other elements and aligments. I didn't include a side effect table, because that would be clunky and it can be simply looked up. Or is this format too unwieldy? Then it has to be broken up into 27 different spells.

Blue mage:
You forgot the "Total MP"-entry in your spells in the other thread.


And to all, who didn't write a review yet:

How about writing one? There are some people, who want totally uninfluenced opinions - at least some reviews where they can think that.

 

[Blue mage for hire2]

You should make a note that the target has to fail its Will save to be affected by the Abjure, and that it takes half damage from the Evoke spell if it succeeds a Reflex save. Also, you're probably better off having the spell just last one minute, but do 12d6 damage.

well, I guess I could have used Evoke Force, but the basic idea was to have a powerful spell that was graphically fiery yet did non elemental damage. I was doing too many things at once, I guess.

First of all, you don't need to pay any MP to get a one-minute duration spell. Second, you misunderstand enduring damage. Each 4 MP you spend will make it do 1d6 damage per round, for a minute. You cannot then add the 'extra damage' enhancement to make it deal 9d6 damage per round. You can buy enduring damage three times, for a total of 12 MP, so that you'll do 3d6 damage per round for a minute.

Enduring damage is useful for slowly wearing down a target. Over the course of that minute, you'll do more damage than you would have with a one-shot Evoke spell, but if it worked the way you have it, it'd be overpowered, with the possibility of doing 300 points of damage to a person, or more.

ah. I see.

Why do you include a duration cost? You don't have to buy a duration unless you want the spell to last 10 minutes or more, and there's no reason this would last 10 minutes.

my bad, I meant: 1 MP area.

This spell may be a little weak, since that energy buffer will apply just once for the entire duration, and only once for the entire area of effect. If people in the area are all hit by one single attack, the buffer will stop the damage to each of them, but people are individually targeted, the buffer could be dropped quickly. Not horrible, though.

hmm...maybe I should read the rules more carefully. I guess I should switch it to energy resistance. That's uh....15 points of energy damage deducted every round. I guess that works.

 

[Vaxalon]

Charm [Creature] and Compel [Creature]

In the change to EOMR, why were the options for Charm [Creature] and Compel [Creature] reduced? There were lots of options in EOM.

 

[RangerWickett]

I promise to get around to replying to these in a few days, but I graduate Monday, and I have to get ready to pack up and move.

In response to the last question, what charm and compel options did you feel were missing?