Elf lifespan, XP, level limit issues...

[Oni]

Okay, so the elves might be pacifist hippies and not too interested in ruling the world. What's stopping the drow then? Certainly a drow wouldn't be above taking a shortcut to gain power. Guess it's a good thing you can't get two drow to agree on pizza toppings, let alone the proper way to rule the world.

The rest of the elves?

 

[The Sigil]

The rest of the elves?

Umm, no.

The shadow elves kicked the rest of the elves' collective butts on Mystara.

The drow elves kicked the rest of the elves' collective butts on Faerun.

"Drow/dark elves" are "cooler" than the rest of the elves - so they will have no problem kicking the crap out of normal elves (as long as we have real-life humans who think they're cool sitting in the writers' and GMs chairs of the world).

Another reason I find no place the munchkinesque^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H broken^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ridiculous drow in my settings. :b

--The Sigil

 

[Kichwas]

The average Parrot can live 150 to 200 years...

Better watch out, cause Polly's coming to town and she's gonna kick some serious but if you don't have enough crackers...

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Another reason I find no place the munchkinesque^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H broken^H^H^H^H^H^H^H ridiculous drow in my settings. :b

Munchkinesque? Possibly.
Broken? No.

 

[s/LaSH]

Okay, so the elves might be pacifist hippies and not too interested in ruling the world. What's stopping the drow then? Certainly a drow wouldn't be above taking a shortcut to gain power. Guess it's a good thing you can't get two drow to agree on pizza toppings, let alone the proper way to rule the world.

What's stopping the humans (or orcs) from conquering the Underdark?

Drow just aren't suited to surface existance. Light blindness is a racial trait, and (at least in revious editions) their weaponry (while made of adamantite) dissolved in sunlight. Just like humans would be at a disadvantage trying to fight in dark caverns, drow would be at a disadvantage trying to conquer the surface world.

What does this say about elves themselves? Do they have environmental factors that limit them to living in the woods? That could well be a limiting factor beyond population growth and a lack of cultural inperative to conquer. Maybe they have to eat tree sap, and that's fairly difficult to come by. I dunno, population growth always seemed the most important factor to me.

Anyway, in my campaign elves do rule certain regions of the world. They destroyed Rome, too. They just don't like warmer climates, where humans dwell. Orcs, on the other hand... they might be savage and brutal, but one good leader and they're capable of conquering the world.

 

[LuYangShih]

The drow elves kicked the rest of the elves' collective butts on Faerun.


--The Sigil

I'm not familar with Mystara, but in Faerun the Drow are the ones who got their butts kicked. The rest of the Elves drove them off of the surface (where they used to live) and into the Underdark. It was a huge civil war among the Elves, and the Drow lost. It might be interesting to set a campaign up during that timeline, actually...


As for Elves ruling the world, I always assumed the reason they don't have world conquering capabilities is their low population and breeding rate. If one Elf dies for every ten Humans, they're still losing. They don't have the numbers to wage warfare and occupy conquered lands.

Orcs have a chance, but I always thought that their low lifespan, coupled with their chaotic nature, made it too difficult for them to organize in the first place, and have the staying power to occupy and hold large parts of land for more than a few decades. Gnomes and Halflings seem to have too low of a population, and aren't that strong or organized, either.

Now, I could see Dwarves conquering a few of the worlds they occupy. They don't have as low of a birthrate or population as Elves in most worlds, they are extremely organized, their favored class is perfect for world conquerers, and mechanically speaking, the only race that has comparable bonuses are the Humans. I assume the reason the Dwarves have not done so, is they have too many enemies to wage wars of conquest. They're too busy holding on to what they have.

Giants, Drow, Duergar, Orcs, Goblins, Illithids and Kobolds all occupy the same types of territory as Dwarves, and I figure the Dwarves have all those massive fortresses so they can hold on to their territories in the face of constant attacks and raids. Still, if there was a race who was going to conquer one of the more popular campaign worlds, other than Humans, I'd say it would be the Dwarves.


PS

A major factor to consider in the traditional Human dominance in civilizations and empires is their adaptibility. With the bonus feat and skillpoints, they can master almost any profession, survive in almost any kind of terrain, and deal with any kind of threat. The other races are far more focused in terms of abilities and skills.

 

[Voneth]

This always seemed backwards to me too. Shouldn't the race with the short lifespan be trying to do multiple things at once (multiclassing) while the longer lifespan classes would be exhausting their interest in one profession and taking up another (Dual classing)?

The way it worked in 2e never made much sense to me. Then again, very little made sense in 2e....

Yeah, I agree. That was one of the first things that got my interest in 3e. I was like "Ohh, doing multiclassing the way I envisoned it. That's a start."

Besides I had a GM who did have the elves rule the world. It boiled down to a lot of sex between pretty people. At least according to my GM. But seriously ...

The reason I give for "Why X doesn't take over the world or why there aren't 20th level serfs everywhere" is the same reason I gave back in 2e. Only heroes (i.e. PCs and special NPCs) truely advance through levels of progression.

It's not about your race it's about your character ... oh, that was so P.C. and PC.

 

[Oni]

I used to play in a campaign where elves controlled a considerable portion of the world, and were working hard to get the rest of it. The militant, nasty, and powerful. A great spin on elves, I enjoyed it greatly.

 

[Drawmack]

The elvin apprentice:

The great evefefrin was the first elf to smelt metal......

a week later

The proper way to smelt iron from ore is .....

a month later


The proper way to heat iron is ......

a month later

The proper way to temper iron is .....

a month later

now you are ready to make a horse shoe.

The human apprentice

Go buy some iron from a dwarf. Heat it to red hot and hammer it as such.

The next day

Now go make a horse shoe.


The orc apprentice

You am stupid, me am kill you.

 

[GuardianLurker]

Heh.

IMC, an NPC mage had a classic sorceror's apprentice moment. Except for him it involved an uncontrolled portal to the Elemental Plane of Water.

Eventually (one inland sea later) they did get the mucker closed and sealed. Of course, in the process, *all* of what would have been Underdark drowned.

No more drow, duregar, deep gnomes, or monsters that make honeycombs out of tectontic plates.

I haven't missed 'em yet.