Eliminating Eastern Flavor From D&D?

[Remathilis]

yes, and can't be, for that matter. Adding in fantasy automatically renders historical accuracy half-assed, at best.

But some people will insist. . .

qft!

 

[Gentlegamer]

Rakshasa, Naga and Ogre Magi.

Also, half of the psionic bag is inspired by Eastern mysticism.

Also: Ki-Rin and good dragons

 

[Gentlegamer]

- umber hulk, rust monster, and bulette (all of Chinese origin)

*narrows eyes*

I see what you did there.

 

[Gentlegamer]

My guess is he means Asian when he says eastern, and by Asian I mean the American use of the term.

I would hazard to say he means what is properly referred to as Oriental, not just "Asian." By that standard, near-east cultural influences (Middle-east, Byzantium, Russian, Persian, but probably not Indian) would fit in.

 

[ProfessorPain]

I would hazard to say he means what is properly referred to as Oriental, not just "Asian." By that standard, near-east cultural influences (Middle-east, Byzantium, Russian, Persian, but probably not Indian) would fit in.

Oriental no longer refers to the near east. The term slowly came to mean things in the far east. Also, it isn't currently used by most writers and academics as it is considered offensive because it doubles as an ethnic slur. I could be wrong, but my guess was he meant the far east, and not just any country east of Rome. I would also challenge the categorization of Byzantium as being an Eastern Culture, since its capital was Constantinople, and it was essentially Greek-- which most regard as the foundation of Western Culture.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Oriental no longer refers to the near east. The term slowly came to mean things in the far east.

So where does the Oriental Express travel to now?

Also, it isn't currently used by most writers and academics as it is considered offensive because it doubles as an ethnic slur.

I'm aware of the PC/Ministry of Truth spin on it. When precision is needed in serious matters, such as police reports describing a suspect's description, "oriental" is used, not "far eastern" or "Asian." There's no slur involved. Even in less serious matters, such as this thread, using the term "oriental" is much more precise to all of our understandings than simply "eastern" or "Asian."

I could be wrong, but my guess was he meant the far east, and not just any country east of Rome. I would also challenge the categorization of Byzantium as being an Eastern Culture, since its capital was Constantinople, and it was essentially Greek-- which most regard as the foundation of Western Culture.

I agree, that's why I think it can be safely included in a "western culture" game that excludes oriental/far east cultures. If you're going for "historical reality," you'll need Byzantium to get Greek Fire aka burning oil.

 

[Lacyon]

Every time I see this thread title, I get this image popping into my head, of a compass rose on a map, like this:


. N
. |
. / \
W S


and now I can't help but share it

 

[ProfessorPain]

So where does the Oriental Express travel to now?
I'm aware of the PC/Ministry of Truth spin on it. When precision is needed in serious matters, such as police reports describing a suspect's description, "oriental" is used, not "far eastern" or "Asian." There's no slur involved. Even in less serious matters, such as this thread, using the term "oriental" is much more precise to all of our understandings than simply "eastern" or "Asian."
.

Don't get me wrong, I am not promoting being PC about these kinds of things; but most style guides no longer use the term oriental to describe people. I also agree that precision is important, but because Oriental has evolved from its original meaning, which refered to anything beyond the west, to its present one, which refers to only the far east, and because some people still use the old meaning of the term, I do not think it is very precise. In this case, I think Far East is the most precise; or East Asian and South East Asian.

 

[Desdichado]

Let's take the exercise in the absurd to its conclusion:

I think pawsplay already did that with his first post.

This whole exercise strikes me as deliberate obtuseness. I have absolutely no doubt that pawsplay never actually thought that removing chickens was the kind of feedback the OP was asking for.

Although am I the only one who thinks this topic is kinda funny coming from a user with an anime avatar?

 

[Desdichado]

The Celts are ultimately from Asia... irrelevant in a Warhammer type world, but if you set your game in the Hyperborean age they would still be fleeing before the Huns.

Well, since you brought the pedantry into this thread, this is all your fault.

The Celts maybe ultimately came from Asia. If, by ultimately, you mean before they were actually Celts and were instead undifferentiated Indo-Europeans. However, that's debatable; the Indo-European homeland is not agreed upon by all researchers. Although the leading model is the steppe of Ukraine, so actually, eastern Europe. Not Asia.

As for the Celts themselves, their ethnogenesis clearly took place in Europe with the Hallstadt and subsequent La Tene material cultures of Austria and Switzerland. They never fled from the Huns, because the Huns didn't come into the scene until the Celts were already in their twilight; already having been conquered in most locales by the Romans. Perhaps you meant the Goths.

But the whole thing is silly. If you're going to that level of description about "ultimate source", you might as well say that the Celts came ultimately from Africa. Like all other Homo sapiens.

With the basic "core" rulebooks of 3e, I think getting rid of the monk is probably sufficient. You can get something similar from some alt.monk classes; I actually think the defender class from Midnight works really well as an unarmed combatant that doesn't use much in the way of Hong Kong theatre or David Carradine's Kung Fu as inspiration.

Presumably what you want is a very European-styled campaign. Being pedantic about where exactly some element originated thousands of years before they were officially introduced into the historical record is inane. Of course Europe and Asia are inextricably integrated; that's what happens when two continents share a thousand miles long border that's largely arbitrary rather than geographical, and presents little obstacle to travel. The interchange of ideas, engineering, philosophy and more between China and Europe via the steppes of Eastern Europe and Central Asia is a big part of how Europe got to be what it is.

But removing overtly Chinese and Japanese influences, et. al. isn't very hard.