Elven re-roll and the demigod capstone power

[Norhg]

what happens when the infinite reroll elf and the infinite reroll halfling collide?

Immediate Actions are once per round, elf wins

 

[Byronic]

Blade cascade is a Daily power iirc and thus does not count.

Anyway just use common sense really. Put as a thumb rule that you can still only do 3 actions per turn, or that you can't use the same encounter more then x times in the same turn.

So yes, Elvish demigods will be able to use their racial power perhaps once every turn. Still quite powerful and about as good as the Dragonborn, Halflings and Eldarin powers (Eldarin deities do not deign to walk anymore ). It just sucks to be one of the other races.

 

[Belphanior]

Interesting bit of powergaming. If the elven reroll got problematic you could always use a bit of ruels lawyering yourself: you must use the second roll, not the newer one. You can roll that attack a million times if you want, but you're always using the first reroll.

That prevents auto-crits, but still doesn't stop the possibility of having two attempts for every attack. I guess epic level elves just don't miss much.

 

[UndeadScottsman]

Blade cascade is a Daily power iirc and thus does not count.

Not for the encounter power regeneration, no, but that's not what he was talking about.

Make a level 30 Elf Ranger demigod with Cascade of Blades
Burn all your encounter powers except for your racial, Elven Accuracy
Use Cascade of Blades, then use your racial encounter ability after the first role. After using Elven Accuracy to reroll the first attack of Cascade of Blades, you'll be out of encounter powers, at which point Divine Miracle regenerates one encounter power of your choice. You immediately regenerate the racial encounter as soon as you lose it, at which point, you could in theory use it again to re-reroll your attack. Repeat until it hits, and then repeat on the offhand attack. Repeat until the thing you're fighting is dead. For added insult, don't stop rerolling until they're criticals.

Now, when my buddy first showed this to me, I could find any wording within the rules that would prevent someone from doing this, forcing a flat out DM "no, because I said so" to prevent it. However, after looking at it again, I think my ruling would be this:
The regeneration happens after you use the power, however at that point the action is over and therefore you could not reroll the attack again. The power isn't officially exhausted until the action is over, is what I'm trying to say.

 

[bobthehappyzombie]

Blade cascade is a Daily power iirc and thus does not count.

I think you have missed the point a bit.
The problem is with the Elven accuracy being used to re-roll every miss, meaning that you could get an unending blade cascade once a day.

Anyway just use common sense really. Put as a thumb rule that you can still only do 3 actions per turn, or that you can't use the same encounter more then x times in the same turn.

It is a Free action there is no limit on them beyond that which a DM feels is reasonable... just like anything else it can be fixed with DM intervention, but the RAW is flawed.

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[bobthehappyzombie]

... I think my ruling would be this:
The regeneration happens after you use the power, however at that point the action is over and therefore you could not reroll the attack again. The power isn't officially exhausted until the action is over, is what I'm trying to say.

I think that is how I would adjudicate it as well, but still, It is just DM intervention with some interpretation garnish.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

I will reiterate the rule that you can't get the same benefit from a power, feat, ability, whatever, twice in the same situation unless otherwise specified. Therefore you cannot reroll a reroll as you would be doing the same thing twice to the same roll. You can regenerate Elven Accuracy over and over however, since each time you use Divine Regeneration it will be under slightly different circumstances (you had a power, and used it, then you had a power, then used it and so on).

You could Blade Cascade with a reroll on each roll using this. However, I expect BC to be modified as it seems abusable as is anyway.

 

[bobthehappyzombie]

I will reiterate the rule that you can't get the same benefit from a power, feat, ability, whatever, twice in the same situation unless otherwise specified. Therefore you cannot reroll a reroll as you would be doing the same thing twice to the same roll. [snip]...You could Blade Cascade with a reroll on each roll using this. However, I expect BC to be modified as it seems abusable as is anyway.

Oh, I haven't happened upon that rule, have you got a page/section reference please?
But still it is teh 4wesome to reroll every roll once... but not it seems as utterly broken as I had suspected.

 

[Kaffis]

Divine Miracle doesn't specify *when* it returns your encounter power. I see no reason to allow it to return the expended encounter power before the current action is completed.

So reroll every attack you make, but only once per action.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

Similar to other posters, I would rule that the encounter power would return at either the end of your turn, or the beginning of your next turn. That would stop this in it's tracks, and be true to the spirit of the rules.