Elven Resistance to Sleep

[Scribble]

So in the thread that was posted about spells that have lost their "sizzle" in 3.x a lot of people have mentioned sleep as being top on their list...

So does this effect the Elven bonus feature at all in your opinion?

Should elves get a re-think?

 

[lukelightning]

I think it should be dropped in 4e, along with things like dwarves' bonuses to hit orcs, dodge bonuses vs. giants, and elven resistance to ghoul paralysis. They rarely come up, and when they do, they are often forgotten til after the fact.

 

[Scribble]

Would you replace it with anything? Or just say screw it?

 

[Vuron]

I hope that any future version restores some of sleep's tarnished glory but if not it's pretty much okay to just keep the save bonus vs enchantment.

You'll take Immunity to Ghoul paralysis over my dead body though

 

[Aaron L]

I think it should be dropped in 4e, along with things like dwarves' bonuses to hit orcs, dodge bonuses vs. giants, and elven resistance to ghoul paralysis. They rarely come up, and when they do, they are often forgotten til after the fact.

Really? You forget those things? I don't think I've ever seen a player of an elf or dwarf forget one of those things that will save their butt.

Forgetting the dwarven AC bonus vs giants Really? Thats a HUGE bonus!

 

[Psion]

So does this effect the Elven bonus feature at all in your opinion?

Should elves get a re-think?

Elves should get a rethink, being the 2nd worst race in the PHB.

But that has nothing to do with sleep immunity. It's a relatively minor ability. It usually won't feature much after low levels if you don't use non-core sleep magic (or creatures with similar effects), but I don't think they give up much for it.

 

[lukelightning]

Really? You forget those things? I don't think I've ever seen a player of an elf or dwarf forget one of those things that will save their butt.

Forgetting the dwarven AC bonus vs giants Really? Thats a HUGE bonus!

Maybe I just forget them because I haven't played a melee character for a while (my gnome is a wizard).

 

[Darklone]

Elves big problem is the CON penalty and dwarves big beef is the CON bonus.

The sleep spell should be somehow scaling with level, it's still very powerful against low HD creatures and nearly useless against HD 2 creatures.

That should be redone.

 

[Shade]

Elves should get a rethink, being the 2nd worst race in the PHB.

Just curious, why?

Half-elves are lightyears beyond the other races in the worst category. After that, I'd go with half-orcs, gnomes, and halflings before elves.

Dex is the uber-stat IMHO, so that alone is nice. I find the free weapon proficiency (especially with bows) to be a nice boon for wizards and clerics. The CON penalty isn't fun, I'll admit, but I usually build my elves for speed and agility, avoiding blows rather than surviving them.

 

[Psion]

Just curious, why?

Darklone got it right. CON is the big factor.

The supposed best class for elf is wizard. But they have no bonus to the driving stat -- int.

But wizards already have the worst HP in the world. Having a con hit hurts.

Halflings, Gnomes, and Dwarves all make better wizards.

You don't want a con hit to be a fighter type either (and the weapon proficiencies are useless to a fighter). The best class for elf is, oddly, cleric. (Even then, con penalties compromise the whole melee-cleric thing, and the cleric utility in heavy armor runs directly counter the dex bonus.)

Half-elves are lightyears beyond the other races in the worst category.

I did say elves were the second worst.

After that, I'd go with half-orcs, gnomes, and halflings before elves.

Disagree. For non-melee classes, strength is a dump stat, so gnomes and halflings are well off. For melee classes, the half orc isn't losing anything he needs.

Dex is the uber-stat IMHO, so that alone is nice.

Con's more important. Dex is nice for rogues, but halflings are better rogues. It's nice for fighters too, but the con hit hurts more than the dex bonus helps.