Elves are Broken :p

[LordVyreth]

D&D handles the concepts of pre-1st level characters and mundane activities in the abstract for a reason. I'd say that there were two principals that opposed the initial post's theory.

There's no real rules for determining how a person changes their initial NPC class to a PC class, or even if that happens. Another theory is that even a first level commoner represents the total expertiese of an adult, and that children don't even get considered levelled beings. Thus, all youth experience, which lasts for decades for elves, add up to the requirements to be a first level in any class.

Second, CR experience values are supposed to represent a threat to the person, in one way or another. A deer that's trying to kill you for some reason would certainly fit as a CR 1, but killing a deer for food as part of a hunting expedition is a Survival check, not a fight. That might be worth some minimal story xp, so Old Ned, the 70-year old deer hunter, might be 5th level. However, the tribal ranger, who only does some deer hunting when not fighting goblin hordes or the rare rampaging monster, can easily reach 5th level in a particularly nasty season of goblin raids. But then, for ever 5th level ranger, there are dozens of rangers who died in the same raids.

 

[Caliber]

Heres an interesting exercise in NPC level advancement by year http://seasong.home.texas.net/sh/rules_advancement.html .

The problem with the table, of course, is it assumes average Human lifetimes. So using it will mean damn near any Elf you meet will be 10th+ (which of course makes one question why Elf PCs are actually only 1st)

I'm not sure how you'd want to change it, since even assuming Elves live the easy life (0.5 CR per year) they'd still be close to 9th as they come into adulthood.

Maybe someone else can do something with the table to apply it to Elves.

Note that the table is seasong's, and was actually built as a group project on these boards some time ago. I don't claim any credit in either case.

 

[Nifft]

IMC, I do away with the "1st-level Commoner" paradigm.

Average NPC level is 10, with plenty of specific people above that. The PCs are distinguised from the general population not by their overwhelming power, but by their lack of any sane self-preservation instinct.

-- N

 

[Psion]

I agree first level villagers is broken for elves. I typically assume that the common folk of long lived races are a bit higher than humans, often making them 2nd-4th level, often with one of more levels in their race's favored class.

I don't bother musing over XP because AFAIAC, the style of XP awards in the book are conceived with PCs in mind.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I think that general "hunting" is covered under Wilderness Lore/Survival, and thus grants no XP. Problem Solved.

I like this solution.

Alternately, the only time an elf gains a level from killing a deer, it is when his life is threatened by it. That happens maybe 10% of the time at first level...if you're generous, and the elf is stupid....after that, it drops dramatically. So if every 1-in-5 times the elf goes hunting, he gets his life threatened by a deer, he'd gain XP for it, and may rise a level or two, but probably not much more, and it would be a really dumb elf.

 

[Orius]

Yeah, but you guys are forgetting something. Compared to humans, elves are a bunch of slackers. So of course it takes them many more years to level.

Now dwarves...that makes a more compelling argument. But they only go into the forest to cut down the trees.

 

[Malk]

in the 3.5 mm, a war pony has a cr of 1/2. now that is an animal bred for fighting and war, it has two attacks at +3 for 1d3+2 damage....and these guys gave a deer a cr 1? thats double the cr for an orc! for zeuses sake!

 

[WizarDru]

The problem here seems to be with Dangerous Denizens, whatever that is, and not the XP system. The SRD has no entry for deer at all, dire or otherwise. Given that deer only have two possible attacks, bite and a charge attack for the bucks, a CR 1 is overly generous, at best. Since the entry for Horse, a CR 1 creature itself, only gives it a single attack with it's hooves, a deer would be considerably lower. Deer, in general, will flee when attacked, and will only fight back when cornered or in a rut.

So the EL for such an encounter is going to decrease drastically, for a creature who is probably only at best a Cr 1/3, realistically. However, I would agree that it's all moot, as hunting and trapping game for food is covered under the use of Survival or perhaps Profession (Hunter).

All of which assumes a rough hunter-gatherer society that predates the standard medieval period. Not nearly as many folks hunted as did other simple tasks, and had others do the hunting for them. People performing specialized tasks is what a society is all about.

 

[Spike Y Jones]

I agree first level villagers is broken for elves. I typically assume that the common folk of long lived races are a bit higher than humans, often making them 2nd-4th level, often with one of more levels in their race's favored class.

In Green Ronin's upcoming Corwyl: Village of the Wood Elves the authors (Christina Stiles and Pat Sweeney) made the assumption that an average villager elf in the same stage of life as an average human villager has only a few more levels; sure he's had more time to do things, but with the laid-back lifestyle of elves he probably hasn't been as rabid about getting everything done now, now, now, before he dies. Thus, while an average nothing-special human villager would be 1-3 level commoner, an average nothing-special elf villager would be 2-5 level.

The other assumption made was that, with centuries instead of decades to deal with, the average elf would be less likely to stick with a single career for his entire life, so the majority of NPCs statted up in the book are multi-classed (in comparison with the human NPCs in Gold Rush Games' The Village of Briarton, by the same authors).

Spike Y Jones, editor, Corwyl and Briarton

 

[Nightfall]

I'd hate to think what villagers think of Slitheren/Ratmen, or even just regular orcs!