Elves Are Not Doomed!

[blargney the second]

I made the breeding age of elves the same as humans. Solves some weirdness.

 

[The Green Adam]

The concept is indeed a strong one in both history and literature and can be a great element of a campaign. my problem is with those who seem to feel, think or believe it is the only element. If there is purpose and a story behind the demise of the Elven people and their nations, awesome. If your doing it because it's always been done, becuase Tolkien did it or something like that I would have to say, IMHO, not as cool.

My Elves prosper because my world learned long ago that it's better to have more friends then more enemies. If any species is on the decline it's the goblinoid races. With Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings and a few other races in a mutually beneficial alliance, anyone who tries to gain through theft, fear, bullying and the like are going to be in a world of hurt. Doesn't mean they aren't gonna try. Doesn't mean the allied forces always agree or always win. It just means they all face the same doom together (when billions of years from now the Sun goes cold or blows up and the campaign world can no longer sustain life). Of course, with magic, maybe that to has an out (I'm trying to cover all the bases because someone on here will surely say, "Well what if the races have colonized other worlds and then...". Yes, yes fine. Now go geek to yourself somewhere else please.)

 

[The Green Adam]

I made the breeding age of elves the same as humans. Solves some weirdness.

Interesting. I'd be curious to know how that works.

Elves in my campaigns still live a really, really long time, with each subsequent generation actually living shorter life span. Currently they live about 750-800 years on average. Wood Elves have been known to reach 1000. The first Elves were immortal, then became mortal to survive on the campaign world. The original Elves passed away at roughly 2000 years of age or so (See The Problem with elves thread as to where my elves come from).

The Elves of today, having shorter lives, tend to have more children. The High Elves average 2.5 as due the Grey Elves. Wood elves have a bit less. The Half-Elves send to have larger families, usually 3.5 on average.

 

[blargney the second]

Interesting. I'd be curious to know how that works.

Quite well! It took elves off the endangered species list.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Elvish pacificism is mythical. It is based on a misguided extrapolation from the narrow sliver of elvish history Tolkien reveals in the LotR.

What elves that remain in Middle Earth for the conclusion of the War of the Rings have carefully preserved the last remnants of their strength over the millenia for the final show down. That required a kind of patience and focus extreme even within the ranks of elves.

Crack open the Silmarillion and there are plenty of stories of bloodthirsty and reckless elves.

 

[Banshee16]

Hey SHARK!

Some agreement and some disagreement on my part.

I think the described effectiveness is more of a human thing (i.e. if humans were as long-lived and proficient as elves, than...), while elves master things in a different fashion.

Elves do not spend their time becoming the greatest soldiers, or rack up wealth and resources. What good is wealth for an elf, anyways. They live in tune with nature, they don't have to cover up their complexes, they just don't need it.

And while elves do practice archery and swordsmanship to rather high levels, I see it more of an artistic thing, than purely effective. An elf with decades of training might not actually be that much better than a human, that trained for pure effectiveness. Elven mages would not train battle magic all the time, while a human battlemage might do that.

Either way, elven armies and warbands would probably be effective in a battle, when terrain is on their side, most likely, because there are a few things they are naturally good at. Their natural advantages might be able to counteract other races numbers and pragmatism, so they certainly are not doomed.

Just some thoughts.

Bye
Thanee

You're right in thinking that elves might not necessarily practice warmaking all the time. I'd like to point out, however, that standard depictions have them actually being fairly warlike. I mean, they're constantly fighting defensive conflicts against goblins, orcs, etc. They simply don't go to war with humans that often....but they get lots of practice killing other humanoids.

And whether they practice swordcraft and archery for art or not....it's still practice. And I'd be willing to bet that the skill can transfer to warcraft very quickly. Just as I'm confident that if you had a sport fencer who had trained for 10 years, and took a soldier and trained him to actually fight and kill with a sword for maybe 4 months, the fencer could likely catch up, and surpass the soldier, simply because he's been practicing related skills for so long.

I think the lifespan thing would give immense advantages. Imagine how many 2nd level warriors an elven army could field. They could have tonnes of guys who fought in a war 50 years ago, and consequently reached lvl 2....and are still in condition to fight, whereas the humans alive back then are like 70 years old now.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

Elvish pacificism is mythical. It is based on a misguided extrapolation from the narrow sliver of elvish history Tolkien reveals in the LotR.

What elves that remain in Middle Earth for the conclusion of the War of the Rings have carefully preserved the last remnants of their strength over the millenia for the final show down. That required a kind of patience and focus extreme even within the ranks of elves.

Crack open the Silmarillion and there are plenty of stories of bloodthirsty and reckless elves.

FR is no different.....the Crown Wars etc. display events on a level with things like Hiroshima, where entire nations were destroyed by High Magic etc.

In my mind, the elves are about the most warlike of the feyfolk....with sprites being maybe second in order. But they're definitely not pacifists.

Dragonlance has their wars as well, like the Kinslayer Wars. Or the tribes of northern Hosk in Talidas, etc.

Banshee

 

[Particle_Man]

There are ways to easily avoid the maximum age limit.

Such as...

 

[CruelSummerLord]

This is a wonderfully refreshing thread, given all the elf-bashing that usually goes on. I especially like the idea of elves never having had a "golden age" to begin with, and that such things could easily happen in the future, that the elven Golden Age is coming, it's going to be the here and now!

My explanation for the elves having never gotten the most use out of their inherent skills and talents is because they've always been divided and fractured as a people. The elven gods often seem to be presented as all-wise, all-knowing, and infallible, but in my version no less than Sehnaine Moonbow made an incredibly bone-headed mistake that doomed the elves to be split apart:

http://www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=649

But the elven gods are trying to reunite their peoples...will they succeed?

Will the promise ever be fulfilled, so near and yet so far, of the elves and their dreams?

 

[Slife]

Such as...

Reincarnate. It gives you a young adult body. Kill yourself before you die of old age, and have a druid reincarnate you.

Oh, yeah. You also retain all skill ranks and feats from your previous form, and gain abilities from your new one. Being reincarnated adds a bunch of abilities to you if you're human.

Sure, you lose a level, but how often will you need to do it?