Elves Are Not Doomed!
- Thread starter SHARK
- Start date
AnonymousOne
First Post
O RLY?hong said:
In order to preserve the epic cuteness.
EDIT: Damn, talk about a thread hijack... my bad...
AnonymousOne
First Post
Is there a ... frame of reference I'm missing here?hong said:
Nahat Anoj
First Post
Indeed.hong said:
The Green Adam
First Post
Someone said:
You got it Someone! It's all about how you define your own view of them. My Elves are neither inept pacifists, nor Humans with a twist, though they are closer to the latter. Their long history and otherworldly origins give them a culture and perspective not Human could have. As a result they are not doomed but neither can they rule the world.
SHARK
First Post
Greetings!
Hey my friends! It's good to see you all again as well!
Well, in thinking about some of the issues brought up--for example:
(1) Elven Military Superiority
The elves' long lifespans--either in hundreds of years, thousands of years, or immortal would naturally translate into greater skill. Indeed, exceptional humans would be potent, but while considerations of "game balance"--vis-a-vis the *player characters* may be a significant consideration, I think that simply using logic would dictate that your average elven army--in contrast to the rule-campaign "assumptions" of every race--including elves--would have troops at 1st or 2nd level I think is nonsense. I think most elves would be somewhere between 6th and 12th level, minimum. If you think about it carefully, that really does solve all of the thorny "mechanical" problems, such as, how are elves more *skilled*? Well, at higher level, each elven soldier would have more skill points, as well as higher stats, translating into a simple way that your average elven warrior would literally be the equivalent of a dozen or more normal humans. Again, if you consider the lifespans, and the lack of elven numbers, this would also dovetail nicely for why a few hundred or a few thousand elves manage to keep much larger enemy armies not only at bay for hundreds and hundreds of years, but also periodically routing them entirely.
Treasure and equipment wise--as per the rules--this would also explain why and how the elves have all of these super magical goodies that just seem to be everywhere--because from a human standpoint, it is a fact, that your average elven knight *is* majestically equipped, with much finer *everything* when compared to humans. This neat aspect also allows the elves' superior crafting skills, magic, and wealth to come into play as well, in a neat, smooth way.
(2) Elven Magical Superiority (Arcane: Wizards)
Somewhat related to (1) above, the elven wizards would be higher level, and therefore have more skill, more wealth, and more spells, than average human wizards. Elves's superior INT allows them more skills, and just the fact that they live longer, means they have more levels, and have learned *more skills* Thus, the elves' will have higher skill ranks in any number of crafting skills, knowledge skills, and so on--all quite impressive to your typical human, wizard or not. It's the elephant in the room, but every DM has to tackle the challenge--does all those extra years of life mean something, or not? It seems to me that merely assuming it is some kind of *cosmetic* difference, and willfully ignoring that salient difference so that other "players"--of whatever race or class don't have fits--really does a disservice to the elves as a race and mythical archetype. To ignore this salient feature reduces elves to being "humans with pointy ears."
(3) Elven Divine Superiority (Divine: Druids and Clerics)
The elves, being more attuned to nature, and having a huge amount of animal, elemental, and Fey allies, can always fight in terrain and weather of their choosing, because they really only have two considerations;
(1) What environment aids and maximizes our elemental/natural/fey allies to the best effect?
(2) What environment and weather right now will hinder the invading human army the *most*?
The fact that the elves can always tailor these things to a significant degree, also means that the humans are always suffering an enormous casualty rate, as well as struggles and problems with operations, from horses drowning or sliding in mud, to human food supplies becoming rotten with mold, insects, water, or heat.
Also, the elves can use massive alliances with such creatures to increase their own fighting forces in powerful ways. How many regiments of human troops are a half dozen earth elementals worth? How about a regiment of fey working through the human encampments day after day, night after night, ripping things, sabotaging things, spreading disease, death, and madness at every turn? How many platoons of human cavalry are worth a dozen treants, or storm giants? Let alone the distinct possibility that an elven kingdom would have alliances or even breeding programs for families of good dragons. That thought alone would make most human armies begin to seriously consider rebellion at the thought--surely they would know--"Yes, yes, mi'lord....we may be able to bring down those three Silver Dragons...but...but...who will go first? How many regiments of troops are for sure going to die in agony by the bushel before we are able to bring the dragons down?" The commanders know this--and so do the rank and file troops, facing the dragons from afar...or wondering...waiting....when the dragons will strike. Add in companies of elven wizards or rangers flying on pegasi, or riding about on unicorns, and the proposition of conquering an elven kingdom becomes a daunting prospect indeed.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Hey my friends! It's good to see you all again as well!
Well, in thinking about some of the issues brought up--for example:
(1) Elven Military Superiority
The elves' long lifespans--either in hundreds of years, thousands of years, or immortal would naturally translate into greater skill. Indeed, exceptional humans would be potent, but while considerations of "game balance"--vis-a-vis the *player characters* may be a significant consideration, I think that simply using logic would dictate that your average elven army--in contrast to the rule-campaign "assumptions" of every race--including elves--would have troops at 1st or 2nd level I think is nonsense. I think most elves would be somewhere between 6th and 12th level, minimum. If you think about it carefully, that really does solve all of the thorny "mechanical" problems, such as, how are elves more *skilled*? Well, at higher level, each elven soldier would have more skill points, as well as higher stats, translating into a simple way that your average elven warrior would literally be the equivalent of a dozen or more normal humans. Again, if you consider the lifespans, and the lack of elven numbers, this would also dovetail nicely for why a few hundred or a few thousand elves manage to keep much larger enemy armies not only at bay for hundreds and hundreds of years, but also periodically routing them entirely.
Treasure and equipment wise--as per the rules--this would also explain why and how the elves have all of these super magical goodies that just seem to be everywhere--because from a human standpoint, it is a fact, that your average elven knight *is* majestically equipped, with much finer *everything* when compared to humans. This neat aspect also allows the elves' superior crafting skills, magic, and wealth to come into play as well, in a neat, smooth way.
(2) Elven Magical Superiority (Arcane: Wizards)
Somewhat related to (1) above, the elven wizards would be higher level, and therefore have more skill, more wealth, and more spells, than average human wizards. Elves's superior INT allows them more skills, and just the fact that they live longer, means they have more levels, and have learned *more skills* Thus, the elves' will have higher skill ranks in any number of crafting skills, knowledge skills, and so on--all quite impressive to your typical human, wizard or not. It's the elephant in the room, but every DM has to tackle the challenge--does all those extra years of life mean something, or not? It seems to me that merely assuming it is some kind of *cosmetic* difference, and willfully ignoring that salient difference so that other "players"--of whatever race or class don't have fits--really does a disservice to the elves as a race and mythical archetype. To ignore this salient feature reduces elves to being "humans with pointy ears."
(3) Elven Divine Superiority (Divine: Druids and Clerics)
The elves, being more attuned to nature, and having a huge amount of animal, elemental, and Fey allies, can always fight in terrain and weather of their choosing, because they really only have two considerations;
(1) What environment aids and maximizes our elemental/natural/fey allies to the best effect?
(2) What environment and weather right now will hinder the invading human army the *most*?
The fact that the elves can always tailor these things to a significant degree, also means that the humans are always suffering an enormous casualty rate, as well as struggles and problems with operations, from horses drowning or sliding in mud, to human food supplies becoming rotten with mold, insects, water, or heat.
Also, the elves can use massive alliances with such creatures to increase their own fighting forces in powerful ways. How many regiments of human troops are a half dozen earth elementals worth? How about a regiment of fey working through the human encampments day after day, night after night, ripping things, sabotaging things, spreading disease, death, and madness at every turn? How many platoons of human cavalry are worth a dozen treants, or storm giants? Let alone the distinct possibility that an elven kingdom would have alliances or even breeding programs for families of good dragons. That thought alone would make most human armies begin to seriously consider rebellion at the thought--surely they would know--"Yes, yes, mi'lord....we may be able to bring down those three Silver Dragons...but...but...who will go first? How many regiments of troops are for sure going to die in agony by the bushel before we are able to bring the dragons down?" The commanders know this--and so do the rank and file troops, facing the dragons from afar...or wondering...waiting....when the dragons will strike. Add in companies of elven wizards or rangers flying on pegasi, or riding about on unicorns, and the proposition of conquering an elven kingdom becomes a daunting prospect indeed.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
The_Gneech
Explorer
One thing to do "mechanically" that would make the elvish walk up to the elvish talk, so to speak, would be to raise the average level of elvish NPCs by +5 or so over the human average, to reflect their long lives and experience.
Remember that the racial baseline stats do not have to indicate a typical member of the group, any more than typical humans are necessarily 1st level commoners. In my games, most competent adult humans are 3rd-5th, with elites being in the 7th-9th range. So most competent adult elves would tend to be 8th-10th, by virtue of being centuries old.
I also assume that elves have human-like development, reaching physical maturity around 20 years -- they just tend to spend the next 50-100 years in their home realms rather than setting out to see the world. One NPC in my game is an elvish fighter/cleric who left home early -- 50 years old and 1st level -- because she felt "called".
-The Gneech
Remember that the racial baseline stats do not have to indicate a typical member of the group, any more than typical humans are necessarily 1st level commoners. In my games, most competent adult humans are 3rd-5th, with elites being in the 7th-9th range. So most competent adult elves would tend to be 8th-10th, by virtue of being centuries old.
I also assume that elves have human-like development, reaching physical maturity around 20 years -- they just tend to spend the next 50-100 years in their home realms rather than setting out to see the world. One NPC in my game is an elvish fighter/cleric who left home early -- 50 years old and 1st level -- because she felt "called".
-The Gneech
NarlethDrider
First Post
cool stuff as usual SHARK---whats your take on drow & driders (or whatever race has taken the creepy spider theme)
one of the elven races in my world I'm working on breeds awakened magical beasts(& animals/magically crossbred races to fill out their army (I'm gonna use the RACE CREATION COOKBOOK to build the elves & other races for my world) mini-hijack is done... sorry
lookin for more SHARK goodness
)one of the elven races in my world I'm working on breeds awakened magical beasts(& animals/magically crossbred races to fill out their army (I'm gonna use the RACE CREATION COOKBOOK to build the elves & other races for my world) mini-hijack is done...
sorrylookin for more SHARK goodness
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