Elvish chain is beautiful.

[mythusmage]

Nit Pick

Here are those pictures of elven chain in the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting that I promised earlier. Sorry for the quality of the scans - I don't have access to my art files at the moment.

(snip)

The illoes are nice, but...

Chain doesn't hang like cloth. Unless the rings are real small, and I didn't get that impression from the pictures.

One thing you can do with cloth that you can't with chain is vary the stiffness and thickness. You can make cloth light and flowing, or heavy and stiff. If stiff you can shape cloth to the body. By the nature of its construction you can't do that with chain. Chain will always have a 'give' to it.

As for the dark elf chain. I know tradition can be a powerful force, but have they ever thought of going over to plate? Probably save on weight, material, and time.

 

[Tarril Wolfeye]

Because magic items resize themselves to fit their wearer. Since all Elven Chainmails and all Dwarven Plates are masterwork items, you just need to enchant (OK, SKR, "magically enhance", blech) them to wear them.

Armor doesn't do that anymore. (Other magic items still resize though.)

 

[mythusmage]

Well, in both case, with the standard D&D level of magic, it's easy to find a gnome-sized Elven Chainmail or a human-sized Dwarven Plate.

As easy as finding a normal Elven Chainmail or Dwarven Plate and a wizard or cleric with the Craft Magic Arms & Armor feat.

Because magic items resize themselves to fit their wearer. Since all Elven Chainmails and all Dwarven Plates are masterwork items, you just need to enchant (OK, SKR, "magically enhance", blech) them to wear them.

Do you really want the dwarfs of the world on your case because you're wearing dwarven plate? And how do you get it properly repaired?

Addendum: And what if somebody manages to disenchant the item? Wouldn't it then revert to its natural state, and size? (Think of the spinal compression. )

 

[jasper]

my armour pet peeve is still howling today. Yes I know it a fantasy but gosh darn it I would like to see some armour (or pics of outfits) which look great and still gives the impression the person could move in with out looking silly or something from battletech like the dwarf plate.
arf arf arf arf howl howl howl
whimper whimper whine

 

[kenobi65]

I love that picture of elven chain. I love that design of elven chain. I loved the
design when it was first shown on Storm Silverhand in the FRCS, but the DMG painting is even better.

Hoo, yah. I love that pic of Storm, too. Yum.

 

[Conaill]

I like the picture but I dont like the design of the mail. Unless that is some very funky weave there is no way she could ever take that off, espescially with that stiff collar. And a woman not being able to take off her shirt is just wrong .

It zips up the back.

"Uhm, Aragorn...could you give me a hand here...?"

 

[Umbran]

Chain doesn't hang like cloth. Unless the rings are real small, and I didn't get that impression from the pictures.

This is true.

One thing you can do with cloth that you can't with chain is vary the stiffness and thickness. You can make cloth light and flowing, or heavy and stiff. If stiff you can shape cloth to the body. By the nature of its construction you can't do that with chain. Chain will always have a 'give' to it.

This is not exactly true.

When people think "chainmail", they typically think of what is known as "4 in 1" mail, in which each ring has four other rings passing through it. With typical rings, this does have give in both directions (more in one direction than in the other). However, it isn't the only weave out there.

The other major weave used in European chainmail is known as "6-in-1" - each ring has six other rings linked to it. With typical rings, it has a small amount of give in one direction, and almost no give in another. Historically, you'd use 6-in-1 for areas that needed protection and little flex (the torso and sleeves, for example), and you'd use 4-in-1 for the joints.

In both weaves, varying the diameter of the ring and the gauge of the wire used will vary the flex and weight of the resulting mail. With small rings of thick wire, you can make 4-in-1 with almost no flex, and so on. If you start playing with weaves that use rings of multiple sizes (not historical, but hey), or rings that are ovals instead of circles, you can get some even more interesting stuff happening.

 

[Mark Plemmons]

Well, in both case, with the standard D&D level of magic, it's easy to find a gnome-sized Elven Chainmail or a human-sized Dwarven Plate.

Well, no, it's not. Not on Tellene, anyway, which was my point.

Elven chains and dwarven plate there are made from iron, and are not automatically magical, mithral or adamantine.

 

[Mark Plemmons]

(snip)

The illoes are nice, but... Chain doesn't hang like cloth.

Yeah, I know. At least, it doesn't hang like cloth all the time. It depends.

That's a problem a lot of artists have. And a lot of art directors, like myself, sometimes forget about it. For example, Lockwood's elven chain can be seen to actually cup and support the wearer's breasts, where it technically should just hang straight down from them.

Of course, artistic license can allow for a lot of things. Just because it's technically wrong doesn't mean they were ignorant of it. Many famous illustrators intentionally ignore(d) specific things simply because it looks better.

Robert Fawcett's work, for example, was/is greatly admired by professional artists, but he often ignored perspective to suit his needs.

 

[yoippari]

Lockwood's elven chain can be seen to actually cup and support the wearer's breasts, where it technically should just hang straight down from them.

Actually depending on how its woven (using triangles) maille actually can draw up and support breasts. In some cases people can actually make sculpture out of maille. http://www.geocities.com/chainmailbasket/

There are many more weaves than euro 4-1 and 6-1. Historically however there were very few that were ever used (due to practicallity). I myself am making a hackey sack out of euro 5-1. My friend has a bracelet made of three rows of byzantine. I have made an anklet out of inverted captive round. There are a lot of weaves out there, some are actually usefull as armor, most aren't.

The way 4-1 falls is normally form fitting. However it does need to be loose, when you lean over your chest should have an extra 5 inches or more of space if you intend to ever get out with out the help of stray family members and the family pony. As for getting out of this "elven chainmail". Buckles werent used historically because it opens a gap where there is no armor. I know it is fantasy but that is no excuse for bad design. And dont even get me started on blunt force padding.

As I said befor, I like the design from an artistic point of view, but its not practical.