Pathfinder 2E Embedding Level Into The Narrative

[Zaukrie]

Something between bounded accuracy and PF2 appeals to me, I just don't know what that is exactly....

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

This concerns me from a player and DM perspective. If this is true:
1) As a DM I don't like the idea that I can drop a character 3 times in 4 combats and they aren't dead.
2) As a player, I don't want to be dropped 3 times in 4 combats!

I imagine there are methods to play it differently, but it seems the play style you like (and what PF2e gives) is not what I am looking for. That being said, I'm still going to give it a go.

Actually thats a weird one, their "wounded" condition should be increasing, and should result in them having a much harder time being alive.

 

[Campbell]

Surviving pretty much came down to always making sure I had a hero point available.

You start each session with a hero point. Additional hero points can be earned for doing something selfless, daring, or beyond expectations. You can have up to three at a time. Left over hero points at the end of a session are lost.

You can spend a single hero point to reroll any check.

You can also spend all your remaining hero points on heroic recovery. Heroic recovery will automatically stabilize you, you do not gain the wounded condition or increase its value, but remain unconscious.

If you are familiar with Warhammer Fantasy it is broadly similar to Fate Points there.

Hero Points are a great GM side tool to adjust the lethality of the game while still allowing for difficult encounters that you can lose.

I would have died in that last encounter if not for having one last hero point. I was Wounded 1 and went down from a critical which brought me to Dying 3. Failed my recovery check which would have killed me if I did not have any left over hero points.

 

[Campbell]

Double post.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Thing is, a powerful swordsman is going to get owned by 10 newbs most of the time.

Miyamoto Musashi would like to have a word with you - and nine of your friends.

I like the old school, hardcore wargamer influenced and grounded narrative of Ye Oldde Tyme RPG based in old fiction written by combat veterans.

In 1e, a powerful swordsman, say a level 10 fighter, would mop the floor with ten 0-levels, with a bit of luck, in one round flat.

OK, it was a one-minute round, but still, the suckers wouldn't've stood a chance.

 

[dave2008]

Surviving pretty much came down to always making sure I had a hero point available.

You start each session with a hero point. Additional hero points can be earned for doing something selfless, daring, or beyond expectations. You can have up to three at a time. Left over hero points at the end of a session are lost.

You can spend a single hero point to reroll any check.

You can also spend all your remaining hero points on heroic recovery. Heroic recovery will automatically stabilize you, you do not gain the wounded condition or increase its value, but remain unconscious.

If you are familiar with Warhammer Fantasy it is broadly similar to Fate Points there.

Hero Points are a great GM side tool to adjust the lethality of the game while still allowing for difficult encounters that you can lose.

I would have died in that last encounter if not for having one last hero point. I was Wounded 1 and went down from a critical which brought me to Dying 3. Failed my recovery check which would have killed me if I did not have any left over hero points.

Are these core rules or optional rules?

 

[Campbell]

Are these core rules or optional rules?

Generally nothing in the game is called out as optional. However, the modular design means most things can be pulled out without affecting other things. The only interaction Hero Points have with other rules is that the reroll has the Fortune trait and cannot be combined with other Fortune effects like True Strike. You will not have to make any other adjustments to rules if you do not use Hero Points. You might want to be more careful about encounter design. That's it.

 

[dave2008]

Generally nothing in the game is called out as optional. However, the modular design means most things can be pulled out without affecting other things. The only interaction Hero Points have with other rules is that the reroll has the Fortune trait and cannot be combined with other Fortune effects like True Strike. You will not have to make any other adjustments to rules if you do not use Hero Points. You might want to be more careful about encounter design. That's it.

Since I want to play PF2e and not DM it, I am interested in what I can expect from a new group. I don't know any PF1 or PF2 groups, so I will have to find one. I would imagine, most new groups (as all PF2 groups are) will stick fairly close to the RAW and will not want to change something like this. I personally don't like hero point mechanics (didn't use them in 4e or 5e), but I guess I will see if I change my mind when I get to play. If they are as necessary as you indicate - I better learn to like them!

 

[5ekyu]

Surviving pretty much came down to always making sure I had a hero point available.

You start each session with a hero point. Additional hero points can be earned for doing something selfless, daring, or beyond expectations. You can have up to three at a time. Left over hero points at the end of a session are lost.

You can spend a single hero point to reroll any check.

You can also spend all your remaining hero points on heroic recovery. Heroic recovery will automatically stabilize you, you do not gain the wounded condition or increase its value, but remain unconscious.

If you are familiar with Warhammer Fantasy it is broadly similar to Fate Points there.

Hero Points are a great GM side tool to adjust the lethality of the game while still allowing for difficult encounters that you can lose.

I would have died in that last encounter if not for having one last hero point. I was Wounded 1 and went down from a critical which brought me to Dying 3. Failed my recovery check which would have killed me if I did not have any left over hero points.

Yup.

This matches most any gimmick point (called hero points in many, momentum, plot points etc) game I have been in.

"Surviving pretty much came down to always making sure I had a hero point available."

Pretty much - whether you have your gimmicks is a big determination for key moments. Whether it's a game with intricate chargen or index cards, the gimmick points are the key.

Its part of the reason we gave up on them and tend to avoid gsmes that rely on them.

We prefer more character action and choice driven results than we do meta-currency driven systems.

But, that is a preference borne out of play of systems with them as "few" ( one per session or less) and them as flowing currency (multiples per session or even primary resolution "flow like rain").

Exception was for low resolution supers where gimmick points fueled stunts for the low resolution (broadly defined) powers.

 

[CapnZapp]

Per the RAW you start your new character with 1 hero point.

The GM is then advised to hand out more. But no rule ever overrides the GM's will (rule 0 if you will) so if you're the GM and you don't want to use hero points, just don't give out any more. As soon as session #2 starts, problem solved!

That first one basically then provides a cushion to new players so their characters don't die in the very first session, but that's basically it.