Embracing AI in TTRPGs - Enhancing, Not Replacing, Creativity

[GMMichael]

Yes, it's unethical and illegal. The law just hasn't caught up with the IP thieves who've stolen text and images to train these generative programs.

Do you remember what happened when telecoms got caught recording all of our conversations? They just legalized it after the fact.

I think Google, Meta, Amazon, etc. have the pull to make AI products legal, too.

It will all be covered in Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth: Skynet Edition.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I wouldn't be so quick in saying that AI derived work can't be copyrighted. A Japanese author admitted to having written her prize-winning book with the help of AI, and the publisher expects the book to be protected by copyright like any other book. UK laws allows the operator of the program to claim copyright over a computer-generated work (at least according to this source, I won't claim expertise in UK copyright law), EU laws grants copyright to the human author as long as he expressive a creative intent which a prompt can fulfill, and it would be the defendant's task to prove there was no creative intent invovled Copyright protection in AI-generated works: Evolving approaches in the EU and China - Creative Industries Policy and Evidence Centre The same source then discusses a Beijing court case where sufficent creative work was found by choosing the software and selecting the image among several generations, which places the bar quite low in terms of necessary creative input.

It might be that US laws won't grant copyright to US authors using AI, but this doesn't mean that "AI products can't be copyrighted" in general. It's certainly safer to assume it is copyrighted rather than assume "since it's AI-generated, I can do whatever I want". And for the copyright-holder, it's safer to look at your local applicable laws before assuming you'll be protected as you'd be with any other work.

Same with the legality of datascrapping, saying "it's illegal" is a highly dubious claim given the existence of 195 countries (using the UN definition of a country), not all of them having the same stance on data scrapping and copyright, instead covering a wide spectrum of positions (from "datascrapping is illegal" to "it's allowed" with some intermediate positions like "it's allowed for non profit use" or "it's allowed unless an opt-out procedure is followed"). It might be illegal for you to do datascrapping to train an AI model, but it doesn't make it illegal for others, like with most human activities.

 

[CubicsRube]

I think many people's exposure to AI in the rpg space is AI generated art, particularly companies that seem to have generated art, done minimal work and slapped it on a commercial product.

That is not an ethical use of AI.

I'm seeing AI used ethically (IMO) to do the initial portions (brainstorming?) of contract preparation and financial analyses. These are ALWAYS used as a starting point which is then reviewed and amended by humans. I understand a similar thing is done with storyboarding for art works and initial drafts of story writing.

In my view if used correctly this is an advanced version of using images and stories we know for inspiration. If they are used as such but the real work is put in by humans then we're using AI in another step of automation and it should be beneficial in that context.

As mentioned it's nuanced. How much transformation of a piece counts as original art? In accounting what constitutes a repair to a fixed asset or an improvement (and hence capitalisable) is not always clear, and so there are official principles to apply and a level of professional judgement involved. I suspect something similar will be needed in the future for these determinations.

 

[Theory of Games]

The courts will decide the matter, it seems.

 

[M.T. Black]

Just posted a new article on OptionalRule.com about the potential positive uses of AI in our beloved hobby. I know AI is a hot-button issue right now, but I tried to take a balanced approach.

Thanks for tackling this issue, Scott. In the RPG scene currently, the perception of AI is overwhelmingly negative, so it takes some courage to swim against the tide.

Some AI-critics speak as if they think the whole thing could just go away. I don't think there is anyway of putting the genie back in the bottle, and that we'll find ourselves using it more and more for everyday tasks, even if we don't realize it. For example, a lot of folk don't realize that Microsoft Editor (the spelling and grammar checker in MS Word) is AI-powered.

Once a little heat goes out of the topic, I hope we can have some productive conversations.

With regards to commercial use, few people want to pay for AI copy-pasta. People value and will pay for human effort and creativity - that's why craft beer costs more, as do hand-woven rugs. I think WOTC will be pretty foolish if they start filling their books with GPT-generated text, but I don't believe that will happen.

With regards to personal use, I think Scott identified some good use cases. He mentioned lore summary. I have thousands of digital pages of content about my campaign world, Iskandar, in a variety of file formats. I've loaded it into GPT and then asked the system questions ("Tell me everything you know about Gahrian the Sun God"). It's much better than trying to look through half a dozen files.

(Sure, there are advanced indexing tools you can get that will bring the information up. But GPT spits it out in a nice, readable paragraph and eliminates redundancy, prioritizes key points, etc).

Another use is with random tables. I use random tables a lot, but it is time consuming to keep flipping through the pages of a book while rolling dice and recording the results. You can copy-paste several random tables into GPT and ask it to roll up the results. It's had problems with random numbers in the past, but is much better now. This sort of thing can save oodles of time.

 

[OptionalRule]

Thanks for tackling this issue, Scott. In the RPG scene currently, the perception of AI is overwhelmingly negative, so it takes some courage to swim against the tide.

Some AI-critics speak as if they think the whole thing could just go away. I don't think there is anyway of putting the genie back in the bottle, and that we'll find ourselves using it more and more for everyday tasks, even if we don't realize it. For example, a lot of folk don't realize that Microsoft Editor (the spelling and grammar checker in MS Word) is AI-powered.

Once a little heat goes out of the topic, I hope we can have some productive conversations.

With regards to commercial use, few people want to pay for AI copy-pasta. People value and will pay for human effort and creativity - that's why craft beer costs more, as do hand-woven rugs. I think WOTC will be pretty foolish if they start filling their books with GPT-generated text, but I don't believe that will happen.

With regards to personal use, I think Scott identified some good use cases. He mentioned lore summary. I have thousands of digital pages of content about my campaign world, Iskandar, in a variety of file formats. I've loaded it into GPT and then asked the system questions ("Tell me everything you know about Gahrian the Sun God"). It's much better than trying to look through half a dozen files.

(Sure, there are advanced indexing tools you can get that will bring the information up. But GPT spits it out in a nice, readable paragraph and eliminates redundancy, prioritizes key points, etc).

Another use is with random tables. I use random tables a lot, but it is time consuming to keep flipping through the pages of a book while rolling dice and recording the results. You can copy-paste several random tables into GPT and ask it to roll up the results. It's had problems with random numbers in the past, but is much better now. This sort of thing can save oodles of time.

Thanks for your kind words. People are clearly stirred up about it and bringing their own read. As you say, AI is more a part of things than we realize and has been in earlier forms for some time.

Brave of you as well to reply with this. There's a lot of legitimate concerns, but also a lot of grand-standing.

 

[OptionalRule]

I wouldn't be so quick in saying that AI derived work can't be copyrighted. A Japanese author admitted to having written her prize-winning book with the help of AI, and the publisher expects the book to be protected by copyright like any other book. UK laws allows the operator of the program to claim copyright over a computer-generated work (at least according to this source, I won't claim expertise in UK copyright law), EU laws grants copyright to the human author as long as he expressive a creative intent which a prompt can fulfill, and it would be the defendant's task to prove there was no creative intent invovled Copyright protection in AI-generated works: Evolving approaches in the EU and China - Creative Industries Policy and Evidence Centre The same source then discusses a Beijing court case where sufficent creative work was found by choosing the software and selecting the image among several generations, which places the bar quite low in terms of necessary creative input.

It might be that US laws won't grant copyright to US authors using AI, but this doesn't mean that "AI products can't be copyrighted" in general. It's certainly safer to assume it is copyrighted rather than assume "since it's AI-generated, I can do whatever I want". And for the copyright-holder, it's safer to look at your local applicable laws before assuming you'll be protected as you'd be with any other work.

Same with the legality of datascrapping, saying "it's illegal" is a highly dubious claim given the existence of 195 countries (using the UN definition of a country), not all of them having the same stance on data scrapping and copyright, instead covering a wide spectrum of positions (from "datascrapping is illegal" to "it's allowed" with some intermediate positions like "it's allowed for non profit use" or "it's allowed unless an opt-out procedure is followed"). It might be illegal for you to do datascrapping to train an AI model, but it doesn't make it illegal for others, like with most human activities.

This, of course, is a fantastic comment. I was replying from a U.S. point of view. Which I should have added a caveat about and is an important part of the discussion.

I will say that the EU and England are on a more strict trajectory right now than the U.S. but that is not the world. Asia has a trandition of embracing new technologies aggressively. Japan in particular has a permissive digital rights and everythign points to that country allowing copyright. China is as aggressive as the U.S. is with pursuing A.I., historically they will likely allow copyright and exercise control on types of content instead.

For what it's worth. I believe it will eventually be allowable under copyright. I wouldn't advise any small or independent publisher to be the one to test this.

As an aside, I thought about include this topic in my original blog post about great uses of AI, but translation is clearly one of the. It's a big topic though, everything from direct real time audio translation, to not having to wait for WotC to translatre the game into your langauge.

 

[trappedslider]

There's a lot of legitimate concerns, but also a lot of grand-standing.

Some of the grand standing is due to not liking the current socioeconomic system we live in and since going into would hit the politics issue, this is how they express it.

 

[Bagpuss]

Out of curiosity I threw a couple of your questions into ChatGPT.

Summarize the history of the city of Waterdeep

Spoiler

Waterdeep, also known as the "City of Splendors," is a major port city in the Forgotten Realms, a fictional world in the Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) universe. It is one of the most influential and largest cities on the Sword Coast of Faerûn, known for its rich history, diverse population, and political intrigue.

Origins and Founding
Waterdeep's history stretches back thousands of years, predating its modern incarnation. It originally started as a humble fishing village, inhabited by small groups of humans and non-human races. Its strategic location, along the coast and at the crossroads of many trade routes, soon led to its growth and importance. Over time, the village developed into a more structured settlement and became a gathering point for adventurers, merchants, and settlers. It grew significantly when human settlers came into conflict with other races, including the elves of nearby Ardeep Forest and the orcs of the Spine of the World mountains. The city's history has been marked by a series of wars, notably against orcs and other invaders.

Rise of Waterdeep
By the Year of the Curse (1032 DR), Ahghairon, a powerful wizard, rose to prominence and became the first Lord of Waterdeep. He established the system of governance by masked lords, an oligarchy that ruled anonymously, protecting the city from personal vendettas and ensuring fairness. Ahghairon's magic and leadership stabilized Waterdeep, fostering a period of growth and prosperity. Over the centuries, Waterdeep became a thriving hub for trade, magic, and culture. Its influence spread along the Sword Coast and beyond, making it a key player in regional politics. Adventurers from around Faerûn were drawn to the city due to its proximity to dungeons and ruins, particularly Undermountain, a vast labyrinth beneath the city filled with monsters, treasure, and ancient secrets.

Recent History and Modern Waterdeep
In modern times, Waterdeep is one of the largest and wealthiest cities in the Forgotten Realms, boasting a cosmopolitan population that includes humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, and even more exotic races. Its political landscape is defined by the Open Lord, a public figurehead, and the Masked Lords, whose identities are secret. The city is also home to powerful factions like the Harpers, the Zhentarim, and the Lords' Alliance, all vying for influence. The city’s history is intertwined with the presence of Waterdeep's powerful guilds, temples, and noble houses. The Lords of Waterdeep, including the mysterious Masked Lords, maintain order through a mix of diplomacy, magic, and military power. The city remains a center for commerce, adventuring, and arcane studies, with institutions like Blackstaff Tower and the Yawning Portal serving as key locations for magical research and exploration. Waterdeep’s significance as a trade and cultural center remains unmatched in Faerûn, and it continues to be a focal point in many D&D campaigns and stories."

and "Give me a list of the named wizards from the city of Thay, from Dungeons and Dragons"

Spoiler

Thay, a powerful and feared nation in the Dungeons & Dragons universe, is renowned for its Red Wizards, a group of arcane spellcasters who control the nation's political and military power. These wizards are notorious for their pursuit of magical dominance and their brutal nature. Here are some of the most notable wizards from Thay:

1. Szass Tam​

• Position: Zulkir of Necromancy
• Description: Perhaps the most infamous Red Wizard, Szass Tam is a powerful lich who rose to become the leader of Thay. As the Zulkir of Necromancy, he has manipulated events in Thay to maintain his control, and he aims to achieve immortality and godhood. Tam’s rule is marked by tyranny, with the undead serving as key tools in his regime.

2. Lallara Mediocros​

• Position: Zulkir of Abjuration
• Description: Lallara is known for her expertise in protective magic. As the Zulkir of Abjuration, she is deeply involved in the political intrigue of Thay, often opposing Szass Tam’s ambitions. Though a powerful Red Wizard, her alliances and motivations can be complex and self-serving.

3. Yaphyll​

• Position: Zulkir of Divination
• Description: A former Zulkir, Yaphyll was a skilled diviner and seer. She played a key role in Szass Tam's rise to power but fell out of favor after being forced to perform a prophecy that foretold his potential downfall. Her current status is uncertain, as her involvement in Thayan politics diminished after Szass Tam consolidated his control.

4. Druxus Rhym​

• Position: Zulkir of Transmutation
• Description: Known for his skills in altering reality and reshaping matter, Druxus Rhym was the Zulkir of Transmutation. He was one of the wizards who opposed Szass Tam during the civil war but was ultimately defeated. His death or disappearance marked the end of his resistance against Tam's rule.

5. Nevron​

• Position: Zulkir of Conjuration
• Description: Nevron, the Zulkir of Conjuration, was a staunch ally of Szass Tam and a master of summoning creatures from other planes. He played a critical role in supporting Szass Tam’s rule during the Thayan civil war. Nevron’s loyalty and power helped solidify the lich’s control over Thay.

6. Samas Kul​

• Position: Zulkir of Enchantment and Guildmaster of the Thayan Enclave System
• Description: Samas Kul was the Zulkir of Enchantment and the mastermind behind Thay’s economic strategies, particularly the creation of Thayan enclaves in foreign lands. He used his skills in Enchantment to manipulate and control others, securing both political power and wealth for Thay.

7. Aznar Thrul​

• Position: Zulkir of Evocation
• Description: Aznar Thrul, the Zulkir of Evocation, was a fire-mage with ambitions of expanding Thay’s borders. He held immense military power and was often engaged in conquest and warfare. However, he was eventually assassinated during Thay’s internal conflicts, a victim of the deadly politics among the Red Wizards.

8. Mythrell'aa​

• Position: Zulkir of Illusion
• Description: As the Zulkir of Illusion, Mythrell'aa was known for her manipulative and secretive nature. She was one of the most enigmatic figures among the Red Wizards, using her mastery of illusion magic to influence events from behind the scenes. She opposed Szass Tam’s necromantic ambitions but was ultimately outmaneuvered.

9. Zhengyi​

• Position: Red Wizard (Formerly)
• Description: Zhengyi, known as the Witch-King of Vaasa, was once a Red Wizard of Thay before breaking away to pursue his own ambitions in the lands to the north. He became a powerful lich and established his own kingdom, though he was eventually defeated. His story remains a cautionary tale of what happens when a Red Wizard's ambitions outgrow Thay.

10. Homen Odesseiron​

• Position: Red Wizard
• Description: Homen Odesseiron was a prominent Red Wizard who served as an influential figure in Thay’s military. He was involved in several key campaigns and was known for his strategic acumen in leading Thay’s armies, though he never rose to the rank of Zulkir.

These wizards represent some of the most prominent figures from Thay, each shaping the nation’s history through their mastery of magic and involvement in the dark and dangerous politics of the Red Wizards.

Problem is being produced by AI I've no way of knowing what is accurate, that it has pulled form information on the internet, and what it just made up because it suits the fantasy world of D&D. It all seems plausible, and my knowledge of the setting isn't deep enough to know what might be inaccurate. Looking up the wizards they seem to be existing characters but not all current or necessarily about at the same period.

I wonder about the ethics of something like the above, and copyright issues. Both results are clearly pulling information gathered from what is available on the internet on various wikis (often produced by fans), but what is available on the internet is pulling from originally copyrighted works. How much has been significantly transformed from say The Forgotten Realms Campaign guide? And if copyright is being broken who is breaking the copyright ChatGPT or the fan wiki, both? Why is the AI search and worse than an old fashioned google search and visiting the fan wiki?

 

[Necropolitan]

5. Nevron​

• Position: Zulkir of Conjuration
• Description: Nevron, the Zulkir of Conjuration, was a staunch ally of Szass Tam and a master of summoning creatures from other planes. He played a critical role in supporting Szass Tam’s rule during the Thayan civil war. Nevron’s loyalty and power helped solidify the lich’s control over Thay.

This immediately caught my eye because it's completely incorrect.

Nevron was one of Szass Tam's fiercest rivals who fought against Szass Tam to prevent him taking over Thay and died (technically, magic was involved) trying to strike him down in person.

But you'd have no way of knowing that without looking it up or reading the books it took place in.