# Empower Metamagic Feat question

#### Pyrex

##### First Post
Why would you ever singly apply Empower to each die?
SRD said:
Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.

A 10th level fireball has a "variable, numeric effect" of 10d6 damage. Hence (10d6)x1.5

#### Patryn of Elvenshae

##### First Post
Another point on this is that you should discuss with your DM (if you are not the DM) about increasing the total by 50% as opposed to each individual die.

Yeah, uh, not to sound like a jerk, but why would you think that you apply Empower on a die-by-die basis?

SRD said:
EMPOWER SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half.

Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. An empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
Yeah, uh, not to sound like a jerk, but why would you think that you apply Empower on a die-by-die basis?

By the example in the Empower Spell feat itself:

"roll 1D4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile"

basically states:

"roll 1D4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2" pause "for each missile"

(1D4+1)*1.5 + (1D4+1)*1.5 + ... + (1D4+1)*1.5

In this sentence, the phrase "the result" must be referring to a single 1D4 + 1 (basic English sentence structure).

Now, maybe they meant to say:

"roll 1D4+1 for each missile and multiply the entire result by 1-1/2" or
"roll 1D4+1 for each missile, add them together, and multiply the result by 1-1/2"

(1D4+1 + 1D4+1 + ... + 1D4+1)*1.5

but, these are not what is written.

However, I can understand from the rest of the text there how the second interpretation is the preferred (and even implied) one. I myself prefer it (because it is faster).

#### Mouseferatu

##### Hero
In the case of magic missile, you multiply by each missile because they are separate projectiles doing separate damage to (possibly) separate targets.

In the case of most spells, however, the combination of dice is a single effect, so you multiply the whole thing. Thus, you perform one calculation on a 7d6 fireball, not seven calculations.

#### Patryn of Elvenshae

##### First Post
By the example in the Empower Spell feat itself:

"roll 1D4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile"

basically states:

"roll 1D4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2" pause "for each missile"

(1D4+1)*1.5 + (1D4+1)*1.5 + ... + (1D4+1)*1.5

In this sentence, the phrase "the result" must be referring to a single 1D4 + 1 (basic English sentence structure).

Granted, and pretty patently obvious. I don't think you'll get any arguments from anyone here.

I still don't see the logic that then applies this same methodology to, say, a fireball spell, in that each missile is discreet whereas there's only one single ball of fire.

The alternative reading, by the way, would properly be (assuming you've quoted correctly):

Roll 1d4+1 *pause* and multiply by 1.5 for each missile.

This would mean a normal, un-metamagicked version of MM cast at CL 5 (three missiles) would produce three missiles, doing, on average (1d4+1) * 3, or 3.5 * 3, = 10.5 damage.

However, when Empowered, the spell would do (1d4+1)*1.5*1.5*1.5 (as in, multiplying by 1.5 for each missile). This would result in average damage of 3.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5, = ~11.8.

That's pretty obviously a wonky reading of the text, however.

The correct answer is (1d4+1)*1.5 + (1d4+1)*1.5 + (1d4+1)*1.5, = 15.75.

#### Tatsukun

##### Danjin Masutaa
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
WRONG!!!!!
...

Don't believe me? Check the example in the PHB. It uses Magic Missile as the example spell.

Dude, why so grumpy? It was (is) a simple question.

-Tatsu

#### Patryn of Elvenshae

##### First Post
Tatsukun said:
Dude, why so grumpy?

Not grumpy, merely jumping up and down and hand-waving!

The game was bout to break down!

A great dane was applying for an apartment lease with his persian lover as a co-signer!

#### Felonious Monk

##### First Post
Ahhhhhhhh... this was the part that threw me off: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. The +1 (or what have you) is numeric but not variable.

#### Hypersmurf

##### Moderatarrrrh...
Felonious Monk said:
Ahhhhhhhh... this was the part that threw me off: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. The +1 (or what have you) is numeric but not variable.

+1 is not variable. 1d4+1 is variable.

-Hyp.

#### tigycho

##### Explorer
By the example in the Empower Spell feat itself:

"roll 1D4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile"

basically states:

"roll 1D4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2" pause "for each missile"

(1D4+1)*1.5 + (1D4+1)*1.5 + ... + (1D4+1)*1.5

Might be just me, but I see

(1D4+1)*1.5 + (1D4+1)*1.5 + ... + (1D4+1)*1.5

as being the same as

(X)*1.5 + (Y)*1.5 + ... + (Z)*1.5

Which means I can do simple algebra here, to get

1.5*(X+Y+...+Z)

The results OUGHT to be the same.

If they aren't, I don't know why.

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