Empower Metamagic Feat question
- Thread starter Vchan
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Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
KarinsDad said:
Yeah, uh, not to sound like a jerk, but why would you think that you apply Empower on a die-by-die basis?
SRD said:
Patryn of Elvenshae said:
By the example in the Empower Spell feat itself:
"roll 1D4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2 for each missile"
basically states:
"roll 1D4+1 and multiply the result by 1-1/2" pause "for each missile"
(1D4+1)*1.5 + (1D4+1)*1.5 + ... + (1D4+1)*1.5
In this sentence, the phrase "the result" must be referring to a single 1D4 + 1 (basic English sentence structure).
Now, maybe they meant to say:
"roll 1D4+1 for each missile and multiply the entire result by 1-1/2" or
"roll 1D4+1 for each missile, add them together, and multiply the result by 1-1/2"
(1D4+1 + 1D4+1 + ... + 1D4+1)*1.5
but, these are not what is written.
However, I can understand from the rest of the text there how the second interpretation is the preferred (and even implied) one. I myself prefer it (because it is faster).
Mouseferatu
Hero
In the case of magic missile, you multiply by each missile because they are separate projectiles doing separate damage to (possibly) separate targets.
In the case of most spells, however, the combination of dice is a single effect, so you multiply the whole thing. Thus, you perform one calculation on a 7d6 fireball, not seven calculations.
In the case of most spells, however, the combination of dice is a single effect, so you multiply the whole thing. Thus, you perform one calculation on a 7d6 fireball, not seven calculations.
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
KarinsDad said:
Granted, and pretty patently obvious. I don't think you'll get any arguments from anyone here.
I still don't see the logic that then applies this same methodology to, say, a fireball spell, in that each missile is discreet whereas there's only one single ball of fire.
The alternative reading, by the way, would properly be (assuming you've quoted correctly):
Roll 1d4+1 *pause* and multiply by 1.5 for each missile.
This would mean a normal, un-metamagicked version of MM cast at CL 5 (three missiles) would produce three missiles, doing, on average (1d4+1) * 3, or 3.5 * 3, = 10.5 damage.
However, when Empowered, the spell would do (1d4+1)*1.5*1.5*1.5 (as in, multiplying by 1.5 for each missile). This would result in average damage of 3.5 * 1.5 * 1.5 * 1.5, = ~11.8.
That's pretty obviously a wonky reading of the text, however.
The correct answer is (1d4+1)*1.5 + (1d4+1)*1.5 + (1d4+1)*1.5, = 15.75.
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
Tatsukun said:
Not grumpy, merely jumping up and down and hand-waving!
The poster had asked a question, received an incorrect answer, and was off to the races!
Disaster had to be averted!
The game was bout to break down!
A great dane was applying for an apartment lease with his persian lover as a co-signer!
Felonious Monk
First Post
Ahhhhhhhh... this was the part that threw me off: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. The +1 (or what have you) is numeric but not variable.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Felonious Monk said:
+1 is not variable. 1d4+1 is variable.
-Hyp.
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