Empower Metamagic Feat question

[Hypersmurf]

If they aren't, I don't know why.

D&D rounding.

(3 x 1.5) + (3 x 1.5) = 4 + 4 = 8
(3 + 3) x 1.5 = 6 x 1.5 = 9

The results are different.

-Hyp.

 

[Sithobi1]

Pretend you are in physics class, and you are only allowed significant figures to integers... Don't round until the end!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Pretend you are in physics class, and you are only allowed significant figures to integers... Don't round until the end!

Not in D&D math. If you multiply each die by 1.5, you round fractions down after the multiplication. If you multiply the total by 1.5, you round fractions down after the multiplication.

That's how fractions in D&D work.

-Hyp.

 

[Vchan]

Thanks everyone!

Was fiddling with at work using the SRD *ahem* (on my lunchbreak, not when I was supposed to be doing something productice) *shiftyeyes* and the SRD doesnt have the examples that I could see.

Taken as a statement, the wording was vague enough I was pretty confused. This has helped enormously!

 

[Sithobi1]

Not in D&D math. If you multiply each die by 1.5, you round fractions down after the multiplication. If you multiply the total by 1.5, you round fractions down after the multiplication.

That's how fractions in D&D work.

-Hyp.

It seems you are agreeing with me-you never round until after the multiplication is over...

 

[frankthedm]

Treated the same.

Inflict Light Wounds, when cast by a 1st-level Cleric, has a random, variable effect of 2-9 damage.

When cast by a 5th-level Cleric, it has a random, variable effect of 6-13 damage.

This tends to make Empower much more useful on spells where there is a strong level-based fixed component to the random range.

It looks like only random variable is the 1 to 8 result on the die roll, not the plus one per caster level. I'll agree with you on magic missle, but the level based damage on cure spells is not part of the random range.

Magic Missile
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target, dealing 1d4+1 points of force damage.
The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat or has less than total cover or total concealment. Specific parts of a creature can’t be singled out. Inanimate objects are not damaged by the spell.
For every two caster levels beyond 1st, you gain an additional missile—two at 3rd level, three at 5th, four at 7th, and the maximum of five missiles at 9th level or higher. If you shoot multiple missiles, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for spell resistance or roll damage.


Cure Light Wounds
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Drd 1, Healing 1, Pal 1, Rgr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text
When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +5).
Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It looks like only random variable is the 1 to 8 result on the die roll, not the plus one per caster level. I'll agree with you on magic missle, but the level based damage on cure spells is not part of the random range.

Why the distinction?

The range of Magic Missile is 2-5 per missile.

The range of CLW is 2-9, 3-10, 4-11, 5-12, or 6-13, depending on your caster level.

If Magic Missile had read, "each missile inflicts 1d4 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +1)," would you change your mind on MM, as well?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It seems you are agreeing with me-you never round until after the multiplication is over...

Unless you're dealing with Magic Missile (or a similar spell), in which case you multiply and then round each missile separately, and then add them together to get total damage.

In other words:

1. (1d4+1)*1.5 + (1d4+1)*1.5 =

2. (2+1)*1.5 + (2+1)*1.5 =

3. (3)*1.5 + (3)*1.5 =

4. (4.5) + (4.5) =

5. 4 + 4

6. = 8

NOT:

4. (4.5) + (4.5) =

5. 4.5 + 4.5

6. = 9

 

[Hypersmurf]

It seems you are agreeing with me-you never round until after the multiplication is over...

Yes. But if you're multiplying each die, the multiplication is over before you add the dice together.

Thus the rounding occurs before you add the dice together.

Hence the two different results, for Empowering 2d4, and for Empowering two 1d4s, if you roll 3s on both, for example.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It looks like only random variable is the 1 to 8 result on the die roll, not the plus one per caster level. I'll agree with you on magic missle, but the level based damage on cure spells is not part of the random range.

Empower Spell affects random numeric effects.

What's the random numeric effect of a CLW? The amount of damage cured.

-Hyp.