[EN Pub] The Fantastic Science -- 24-page teaser!

[Kelleris]

I may just house rule that it takes 2 hours to "demagic" the items every morning due to the overwhelming power of the Forge.

Of course that would be the obvious solution, if you want the flavor without too significantly nerfing the technologist.

My only thought is that you might annoy the other PCs with a technologist if this is the case - most players I know have been trained by D&D into automatically waiting an hour to get going in the morning, and might take exception to having to wait an additional hour. I don't think it would bother my guys, but naturally I can't speak for your group (or anyone else's).

The Humanx series is about a close alliance between the Thranx (aliens that look like bugs) and humanity. IIRC Allen Dean Foster is the author.

Hmm... Interesting. I've read some of Alan Dean Foster's other works, and enjoyed them, so I think I'll look into this.

If I like illithids, I would go with them, but I really don't. Aboleths fill that niche in all my fantasy settings. The yuan-ti were the first intelligent non-mammal humanoids I could think of but you are right- they don't seem technologically inclined. Maybe aranea? Spiders vs insects has a good ring to it.

Only problem is that aranea are not evil. Oh, and they're natural sorcerers. Er, okay, the only two problems are that they're not evil and natural sorcerers. So I would be inclined to take the aranea's stats, swap out natural tech use for sorcery, and change their usual alignment and society.

What else would work? Ethergaunts are a good choice. Perhaps githyanki? Formians, maybe, but I know a lot of people dislike them. Formians using FS versus slaadi using chaositech would be an entertaining conflict to be caught in the middle of, though you'd need some weaker slaad forms to work with.

Ahhh... What else? Well, I occasionally include warped, Far Realms versions of FS in my games, but then I include warped, Far Realms versions of practically everything in my games at one point or another.

I'd be kind of partial to a huge, chaotic nation of orcs that periodically spins off savant-led mini-hordes that both orc tribal leaders and humanoids try to suppress. But then, I don't use savage humanoid opponents enough in my games, so maybe I'm just looking for an angle here.

Perhaps dark stalkers/creepers would make good technologists? You could put the dark matter devices to good use, and at the moment those races are much more mysterious than the drow and other such underdark races.

It is always gnomes- that is why I picked halflings.

It is always gnomes. That was part of the reason gnomes are generally ambivalent toward technology as far as the "default" version of The Fantastic Science. That, and the fact that they're the only PHB race that has innate spell-like abilities.

I would increase the difficulty of arcane disruption and half the weight, but otherwise I agree with you.

Well, nothing to do now but file the idea away for later. Anything else you'd like to see, Derek? I'm always looking for good ideas, after all.

It is one of the most interesting books I have read this year- so many ideas to tweek and play with. And you can call me Derek.

Thanks. I have to ask, though, does the introductory material in the first chapter help you with the tweaking? Not so much the introduction scenarios offered, but the earlier explanations of what a spellcasting tradition is and how the technologist fits in in that context? I was trying to make my design process there as transparent as possible for precisely this reason, so I'd like to know what bits in particular helped you in your tinkering, either in terms of inspiration or ease of use.

Oh, and you can call me Matt, if you like. But I suppose you already knew my name.

 

[DMH]

Only problem is that aranea are not evil. Oh, and they're natural sorcerers. Er, okay, the only two problems are that they're not evil and natural sorcerers. So I would be inclined to take the aranea's stats, swap out natural tech use for sorcery, and change their usual alignment and society.

Why do they have to be evil? Formians are much, much worse in their expansion plans and still are neutral. Though the spellcasting will have to be replaced of course, but that shouldn't be much of an issue since it is simply replacing standard magic with FS.

What else would work? snip a bunch of good ideas

I have several monster books and most of them have additional races that I want to use. Bastion's Into the Black has one I think might make a good cyborg with just some cosmetic changes. Though I think the easiest thing to do is just make new races that fill the niche better. You should note that I am not a person who likes standard settings. Here are a couple that I am proud of creating:

http://alternityrpg.net/onlineforums/index.php?showtopic=2223

http://alternityrpg.net/onlineforums/index.php?showtopic=2508

And a generic thread for ideas:

http://alternityrpg.net/onlineforums/index.php?showtopic=1643

Obviously you now know my ruleset of choice.

Well, nothing to do now but file the idea away for later. Anything else you'd like to see, Derek? I'm always looking for good ideas, after all.

Oh, lots I think the defensive side of FS needs some additional devices (there are only 2 or 3 armor or forcefield related ones currently). More vehicles (and no giant spider bots, thank you). And some devices to better the lives of the common man. Even if they were forced to take levels in technologist, I think a few people in every major town and city should have access to FS (depending on the setting of course).

Thanks. I have to ask, though, does the introductory material in the first chapter help you with the tweaking?

Yes, in fact it is one of the better explaination chapters I have read. In fact, I came up with the giant based setting within a few minutes of reading "EUREKA!" (page 6).

Oh, and you can call me Matt, if you like. But I suppose you already knew my name.

Nice to meet you, Matt. I will try to remember the double t (just a joke at myself).

 

[Kelleris]

Why do they have to be evil? Formians are much, much worse in their expansion plans and still are neutral. Though the spellcasting will have to be replaced of course, but that shouldn't be much of an issue since it is simply replacing standard magic with FS.

That's true. Actually, it reminds me of one plane in Beyond Countless Doorways where formians are invading a forest dominated by aranea. Giving aranea tech in that scenario would make for a very strange game, thematically, I would think.

I have several monster books and most of them have additional races that I want to use. Bastion's Into the Black has one I think might make a good cyborg with just some cosmetic changes. Though I think the easiest thing to do is just make new races that fill the niche better.

Heh. Yeah, it really isn't hard to find D&D races or monsters that would make sense using fantasy science. I'm not really sure why that is...

And I checked out that thread. The "metal god" scenario would be interesting, although I myself prefer less thematically-organized settings. Hmm... You could do something strange there and say that FS is powered by or otherwise requires the god's blood, which also has magic-suppressant properties. A strange resource like that to fight over makes sense, and it's doubly interesting if the blood is having some strange effect on its users or slowly killing
"the world" or something.

I think the defensive side of FS needs some additional devices (there are only 2 or 3 armor or forcefield related ones currently). More vehicles (and no giant spider bots, thank you). And some devices to better the lives of the common man. Even if they were forced to take levels in technologist, I think a few people in every major town and city should have access to FS (depending on the setting of course).

The defensive item problem was actually a flavor issue. I wanted each device in the book to have some kind of cool thing attached to it, whether that's flavor or a unique mechanic or an interesting decision the device forces you to make to use it. I doubt very much that I succeeded, but the goal made it hard to design yet another force-field or alchemical-armor device - there's only so many unique mechanics and flavor variations in that area. But it is supposed to be a strength of the class, so it's on my list anyway.

Venhicle, of course, have the problem of being inactive when not activated, like all devices. But most vehicles are also impossible to move when they don't move themselves, and so make for poor adventuring gear, to my mind. The various mechanical workarounds I came up with all seemed really clunky. The other problem with vehicles is that, flavor-wise, they have a much larger "footprint" on the setting - they stand out a lot more than personal equipment. Since I wanted to preserve the magic-dominance assumptions of the game and not force anyone to make heavy use of FS to use it, I wasn't completely comfortable with making vehicles for those reasons.

And of course D&D spells are notorious for being disproportionately adventurer-friendly. But I'm not sure that's entirely a bad thing. When the book has severe space limitations, as mine did, it's best to just put in the devices that will affect game balance the most and see the most use by adventurers and leave the conceptual stuff to the DM (as well as including device design guidelines, of course).

However, my solution to making FS more prevalent was actually going to be a series of feats that grant mastery and limited use of a single device. So you need X ranks in Craft (weaver) and Craft (technology) [and significantly more of the former] and Skill Focus (Craft (weaver)) and you can use a fabricacious fabricator some number of times per day. Elite city guards in my campaign are basically just warriors that have access to the pocket ballista through such a feat, and that's worked out well - adds that extra bit of oomph to the whole "move and I'll shoot" bit when the crossbow bolts do 2d8 base damage. It's also good for flavor - common equipment of significant power rewards players for keeping track of the setting by allowing them to plan ahead ("We see guards in green and blue livery? Better break out the entropic shield spells..."). But I didn't get too far along this line of thinking before it became clear that there simply wasn't room for much optional material like this in the book.

Yes, in fact it is one of the better explaination chapters I have read. In fact, I came up with the giant based setting within a few minutes of reading "EUREKA!" (page 6).

Good. I think the second commentator on RPGNow.com agrees with you, and Cabe Zeree did as well in his ENWorld review. So the consensus seems to be that that chapter was more useful than I had anticipated. Good to know.

 

[DMH]

The defensive item problem was actually a flavor issue. I wanted each device in the book to have some kind of cool thing attached to it, whether that's flavor or a unique mechanic or an interesting decision the device forces you to make to use it. I doubt very much that I succeeded, but the goal made it hard to design yet another force-field or alchemical-armor device - there's only so many unique mechanics and flavor variations in that area. But it is supposed to be a strength of the class, so it's on my list anyway.

Well, you could have artifact armor that is similar to the armor of the Jaffa on Stargate (the movie and series) and base it on the device that creates a flesh golem out of a few bits of metal (Gelph’s Instant Aggressor). Gelph's Instant Battlesuit?

Since I wanted to preserve the magic-dominance assumptions of the game and not force anyone to make heavy use of FS to use it, I wasn't completely comfortable with making vehicles for those reasons.

Okay, that is what supplements are for

However, my solution to making FS more prevalent was actually going to be a series of feats that grant mastery and limited use of a single device.

That is a good idea. Another possible requirement could be a certain number of levels in Expert (or similar classes like Skirmisher's Specialist in Experts 3.5). Hmm. That is an interesting idea- making the technologist a metaclass or PrC of the expert or specialist.

I was also thinking of a totally different setting where FS and psionics (or psychics) go head to head (and dropping magic totally). All the antimagic devices simply turn to antipsionic and the creature types damaged might change a bit. Or, instead of psionic powers, develop a few variations on the soulknife- defense (soulshield), ranged offense(soulbow), stealth (soulshadow) and detection (souleye).

 

[DMH]

Device question. The furnace kindler has a cone and a range increment- how does that work? And why does it have such a high activation cost? A first level technologist could only use it once per day and not be able to use anything else.

Concept question. What happens in a anti-magic field? Do activation points go out the window? I see the balance issues and am not asking for solutions, but the basic concept (magic screws up technology) makes this a difficult senario.

 

[Kelleris]

Device question. The furnace kindler has a cone and a range increment- how does that work? And why does it have such a high activation cost? A first level technologist could only use it once per day and not be able to use anything else.

A furnace kindler allows a Reflex save to half the damage it deals - the DC of that Reflex save is affected by the range to the target. Essentially, the device projects a 50-foot cone of fire (5 range increments; an unusually large area of effect, for what it's worth) and deals its damage in that area. Within 10 feet of the technologist, the save is at the normal DC, within 20 feet it's the normal DC minus 2, within 30 feet the normal DC minus 4, and so forth. The activation cost is and should be 5 points for a set-duration lesser gadget, so that's right. A 1st-level technologist can only use it once/day (without some bonus stabilization points from a high ability score) because he's first level (much the same reason a 1st-level wizard can only memorize a single magic missile spell). A technologist's free use of low-level devices doesn't kick in for a few more levels - compared to the psion (for instance) they have to pay for their higher BAB, HD, craft points, and vastly improved skill access somehow. They pay for those things by having very limited use of their best devices, and at first level, well, a furnace kindler is your best device. It doesn't nerf the technologist too badly, believe me, especially since you can also start with a backpack full of alchemist's fire by spending your craft points.

Concept question. What happens in a anti-magic field? Do activation points go out the window? I see the balance issues and am not asking for solutions, but the basic concept (magic screws up technology) makes this a difficult senario.

The antimagic field either has no effect at all on FS, or it blocks it (I recommend the latter, generally speaking). It definitely doesn't allow free use of devices within its area. The key is realizing that the antimagic part is in reference to its function, not its nature. The field is actually a sort of scrambling field - it makes working magic by spellcasting impossible, but it hardly gets rid of it. This was the tact I took for the technologist's equivalent of the antimagic field, the inviolate shield, and it's suggested by the ability of Mordenkainen's disjunction to negate an antimagic field (which wouldn't make sense if there isn't actually a spell in the area to disjon, after all).

Anyway, the upshot of all this is that there's still plenty of magic in an antimagic field, it's just that it's all too scrambled to function properly. I would say that makes it even harder (read: practically impossible) to activate a device, but it certainly shouldn't make life easier for the technologist.

Does that clear everything up? I feel like I should have had a sidebar on the matter next to the inviolate shield against magic entry. Oh well, not like it's anything new for antimagic field to cause wonky conceptual problems.

 

[DMH]

Yes, thank you for the answers.

And another thanks for making craft points more useful. When I first read them in UA, I saw that they don't roll over and then skipped the rest of that section. You made them much more useful with the ability to earn them.

Back to the setting ideas. I was also thinking of taking FS and dividing the exsiting devices into 2 groups based on theme. One is used by the kreen and is based on their crystal tech, the other by the arenea and is based on webbing. Humans haven't learned how to create or use any FS so far and must use magic or psionics. I think this would work well with a multigeneration game (playing the families through time and seeing the world evolve) where they start with spellcasters and end with spellcasters and technologists.

 

[DMH]

This is the last setting idea that I will post here. How about giving FS to the sahuagin? They are brainy and technology developers (Sea Devils and a Dragon article expanded upon this). With just a few changes to certain devices:

Fish people is wet suits invading the land, blasting the locals with Magnificent Iceball Hurlers. Make the locals a typical Dark Ages village in need of heros and there is a campaign. The only other change I would make is the devices are biomechanical and gross to most land dwellers.