[EN Pub] The Fantastic Science -- 24-page teaser!

[Kelleris]

I guess we view magic differently. I don't think of the 4 (or 18 by the old MOP) elementals as magical. They are spirits, yes, but it is not magic in the sense of spellcasting that allows them to form bodies of their element. I can't explain it well because it is a gut thing. As for outsiders, you are correct- for the wheel. I was thinking of outsiders like Cook's Beyond Countless Doorways.

Well, you have to remember that the book is written assuming the core rules, which means a sort of vaguely-defined Great Wheel - all the stuff I mentioned about outsiders being made of alignment-stuff, etc. is right out of the core rules. And a being made out of pure fire is at least as magic dependant as an amorphous ooze or a giant fire-breathing lizard.

Actually, that has some very interesting implications. I will have to fiddle with it (and adapt it to some bones of steel). Thanks!

Erm... You're welcome!

If you (or anyone, of course) has any more questions, feel free to ask!

 

[DMH]

And a being made out of pure fire is at least as magic dependant as an amorphous ooze or a giant fire-breathing lizard.

Not really since they are not made of fire- they just have a flaming "skin".

I have been really looking at all 4 tech/magic-tech books (3 from ENP plus CT) and I have to say that I like the feel of FS best though the grab bag style of Chaositech has some definite bonuses.

Might there be any supplements for FS that cover different types of technology?

 

[Kelleris]

Not really since they are not made of fire- they just have a flaming "skin".

You're free to interpret it that way, but the core rules seem to indicate otherwise. The definition of an elemental is "a being composed of one of the four classical elements" and the type's immunity to critical hits and flanking strongly indicates that it consists of one undifferentiated mass. Not to mention that the immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning and lack of a need to eat, sleep, or breathe strongly indicates that elementals don't have anything like a human(oid) biology of the sort that doesn't need to assume some sort of magical metabolism (like that of an undead creature or construct). And the elemental type, like the outsider type, is supposed to lack a dual nature - "its soul and body form one unit." Something made entirely out of soul-stuff from the elemental plane of whatever (fire, in this case) certainly sounds to me like something "made" of magic, insofar as anything can be "made of magic" and still be considered an autonomous creature.

Now, all this is not to say that the four-creature-type approach catches everything - you'd need a house rule to have the antimagic abilities to affect living spells (which are oozes), of all things - but it covers 90% of the things I think it should cover and only leaves out a small fraction of things for which a case could be made. So it's a good compromise between parsimony and completeness. It would certainly be more trouble than it's worth to have an "abnormality list" that couldn't possibly cover everything that every DM wanted to use anyway.

Ahem. So, that dissertation aside...

Might there be any supplements for FS that cover different types of technology?

I highly doubt it, unfortunately. Unless a couple of hundred more people up and decide to buy the book in the near future, sequels will probably not be worth the time for me to write and the resources for ENP to publish.

But here's hoping, eh?

 

[Kelleris]

To anyone that's still here:

The Print-on-Demand option at RPGNow is now available!

 

[DMH]

Cool. I just posted my review at rpgnow (5 stars).

 

[Kelleris]

Cool. I just posted my review at rpgnow (5 stars).

Thanks! Although, I have to admit... That summary of the book is better than any of the summary blurbs I've attempted.

EDIT: By the way, DMH; the more I think about your points regarding the classification of abnormalities in Fantastic Science, the more I wish I had added a sidebar or something noting that the approach taken should be supplemented by DM judgment calls, with some guidelines for determining what is and isn't "magic-dependent." Oh well...

 

[DMH]

Some odds and ends-

I have been fiddling with the idea of a giant nation that uses fantasitic science in an Oathbound campaign and so far it seems to work well. Of course medium sized creatures are still screwed in trying to loot the giants, but the devices can still be used to gain the knowledge of FS. A decade or so after the giants are forced to give up their technology, the battles in Arena get strange... The only issue is the overwhelming amounts of magic on the Forge. It is infused because the prison is leaking (and that is why prestige racial levels are even possible). Any ideas?

I was also thinking of using Maugs as a planar source of technology. Ever since the warforged have come out, maugs have gone kaput in terms of popularity.

Or, maybe giving the technology a crystalline form and giving it to the thri-kreen (or even aspis). Hordes of bug people washing over the lands- nice image, huh?

For a twist on that, the thri-kreen are allies to humanity and are in a war with the yuan-ti who use vile magic or chaositech. Humanx stories would be a great resource for this.

Another twist is to give the technology to halflings. Tired of being bullied by larger people, they made themselves powerful.

If the chance for a supplement does come out, may I suggest that implants and prostetics (sp) be included?

 

[Twin Rose]

Some odds and ends-

I have been fiddling with the idea of a giant nation that uses fantasitic science in an Oathbound campaign and so far it seems to work well. Of course medium sized creatures are still screwed in trying to loot the giants, but the devices can still be used to gain the knowledge of FS. A decade or so after the giants are forced to give up their technology, the battles in Arena get strange... The only issue is the overwhelming amounts of magic on the Forge. It is infused because the prison is leaking (and that is why prestige racial levels are even possible). Any ideas?

There's a "Lost Bloodhold" in Penance where the people had many fantastic "devices" and steam powered goodies and a bunch of other technology that, at one time, had them as the strongest bloodhold in Penance. It got overwealmed with it's own polution, though, and a machine mishap. Perhaps some of these devices start turning up again?

It's given a brief overview in Wrack and Ruin.

 

[Kelleris]

I have been fiddling with the idea of a giant nation that uses fantasitic science in an Oathbound campaign and so far it seems to work well. Of course medium sized creatures are still screwed in trying to loot the giants, but the devices can still be used to gain the knowledge of FS. A decade or so after the giants are forced to give up their technology, the battles in Arena get strange... The only issue is the overwhelming amounts of magic on the Forge. It is infused because the prison is leaking (and that is why prestige racial levels are even possible). Any ideas?

Hmm... Depends. Are you looking for a way to actually make devices less effective? A quick way to do that would be to require an activation level check to successfully activate a device, in the neighborhood of 10-15. That'd ensure that only the best technologists have devices that are completely reliable, and would explain why FS hasn't spread very quickly. You could even support the giantish monopoly on FS by giving them secret techniques - a giant-only feat - that grant a large bonus on this special activation level check or remove the need for it entirely.

If you want an excuse for why it works normally despite all that magic, well, I'm not sure you need such an excuse. It certainly emphasizes the magic/technology conflict if you portray technologists as effortlessly overcoming the Forge's magic despite its prevalence. Otherwise, you could also have one of the bird-gods (feathered fowl? or something like that) support FS for reasons of its own. That gives an interesting divine edge to the technology - you could even go that route to ensure that it's only used by creatures that are evil (or good, or who meet some other ideological requirement).

Other than that... Well, I'm glad Twin Rose is here. He evidently knows a lot more about Oathbound than I do. Do what he says.

I was also thinking of using Maugs as a planar source of technology. Ever since the warforged have come out, maugs have gone kaput in terms of popularity.

That's not a bad idea, particularly since warforged are magically created and maugs always seemed to be entirely technological. If you do this, be sure to designate maugs as nonmagical constructs so the antimagic abilities don't affect them.

Or, maybe giving the technology a crystalline form and giving it to the thri-kreen (or even aspis). Hordes of bug people washing over the lands- nice image, huh?

For a twist on that, the thri-kreen are allies to humanity and are in a war with the yuan-ti who use vile magic or chaositech. Humanx stories would be a great resource for this.

First - "Humanx Stories"? What's that? I'm not familiar with it.

Second - I really like this one! Of course, it's a significant change in the "default" thri-kreen society, but nothing wrong with that. I think I'd use mind flayers as the antagonist, though; I don't see yuan-ti as very progressive or "scientific", even in the warped way that leads to chaositech.

On the other hand, maybe you could make the yuan-ti powerful druids, and get a technology/nature theme. Especially interesting since my impression has always been that yuan-ti are pretty conservative sorts, hearkening back to their ancient empire and even more ancient deity. Or, for particularly rich paranoia, yuan-ti agents could secretly be behind human attempts to adopt FS, for some mysterious reasons of their own.

Another twist is to give the technology to halflings. Tired of being bullied by larger people, they made themselves powerful.

Heh. Actually, this was what Errol did in my playtesting, except that he used a gnome. He built a device based on the enlarge person spell, with a few extra bonuses to make it more intimidating. Something like that could certainly make halflings more fearsome, especially if they make heavy use of devices like the clockwidget fabrication gantry in mechanizing their caravans (following the example of Tullius in the book).

If the chance for a supplement does come out, may I suggest that implants and prostetics (sp) be included?

Prosthetics. It's certainly on the list of things to do. My preliminary thought was to make a feat that allowed you to implant a single mastered device into your body. I haven't decided what benefit to grant, though. Perhaps the device becomes effectively weightless and can be activated as a "supernatural" device instead of a "spell-like" one - it becomes immune to arcane disruption and no longer provokes an attack of opportunity to activate.

I'm glad to see you're getting so many good ideas from my work, DMH.

 

[DMH]

There's a "Lost Bloodhold" in Penance where the people had many fantastic "devices" and steam powered goodies and a bunch of other technology that, at one time, had them as the strongest bloodhold in Penance. It got overwealmed with it's own polution, though, and a machine mishap. Perhaps some of these devices start turning up again?

Actually there are two. The one in DOF has a museum with devices that no one knows how to activate. The one in W&R was doing fine until the guy with the knowledge died. They dumped pollution in the undercity and when it exploded, the fireball was seen miles away from the city. I wonder how long it took the people to build over the crater

If you want an excuse for why it works normally despite all that magic, well, I'm not sure you need such an excuse.

I may just house rule that it takes 2 hours to "demagic" the items every morning due to the overwhelming power of the Forge.

First - "Humanx Stories"? What's that? I'm not familiar with it.

Second - I really like this one! Of course, it's a significant change in the "default" thri-kreen society, but nothing wrong with that. I think I'd use mind flayers as the antagonist, though; I don't see yuan-ti as very progressive or "scientific", even in the warped way that leads to chaositech.

The Humanx series is about a close alliance between the Thranx (aliens that look like bugs) and humanity. IIRC Allen Dean Foster is the author.

If I like illithids, I would go with them, but I really don't. Aboleths fill that niche in all my fantasy settings. The yuan-ti were the first intelligent non-mammal humanoids I could think of but you are right- they don't seem technologically inclined. Maybe aranea? Spiders vs insects has a good ring to it.

Actually, this was what Errol did in my playtesting, except that he used a gnome.

It is always gnomes- that is why I picked halflings.

Perhaps the device becomes effectively weightless and can be activated as a "supernatural" device instead of a "spell-like" one - it becomes immune to arcane disruption and no longer provokes an attack of opportunity to activate.

I would increase the difficulty of arcane disruption and half the weight, but otherwise I agree with you.

I'm glad to see your getting so many good ideas from my work, DMH.

It is one of the most interesting books I have read this year- so many ideas to tweek and play with. And you can call me Derek.