EN World Game Store poll

[BrooklynKnight]

ENGS uses paypal if i'm not mistaken?

This is where i sort of draw the line. I try to do my best to avoid paypal as much as I can. I may use it for small things here or there but after all the things I've heard, I simply dont trust them and dont want to have any of my credit cards or checking accounts linked to them.

I would feel much more secure if ENGS used some kind of secure credit card service aside from paypal for its purchases. I'm not to well educated in this area, but Verisign or something else.

That said...I would definatly be willing to shift all my pdf purchases to ENGS. I would be more willing if the store eventually grew to offer even more similar services to RPGnow such as POD, or being able to order printed books in general.

Bottomline is that the ENGS is the latest store on hte market and it can serve to learn a lot from those that came before. I see no reason it shouldnt have similar features that all those other stores have.

 

[ukgpublishing]

If my FLGS had a CD-ROM on the shelf for $20 or $30 with a group of very popular and successful .pdf's that were not available in hardcopy, I'd consider it (still don't like using .pdf's for actual gaming, but they'd be okay as references).

Well as a publisher we tried this and couldn't actually get a distribution deal with anyone. Which is why we have a range of pdf products and have now gone into printed media as well

As a company we publish in various forms and I enjoy reading your opiniona on this matter as the owner of a bricks and mortar outlet I think there is a lot of room for both sides of the debate electronic over physical, and where possible I will always try to cater to both sides .

Kevin (not John Milner) Scott
web http://www.ukg-publishing.co.uk
shop http://www.spacemythandmagic.co.uk/zc

fanboards http://www.yearofthezombie.co.uk

 

[rpghost]

... and printing a .pdf is a nightmare since printer ink is so expensive that it's much more expensive to buy a .pdf and print it than to just buy the hardcopy (especially since often the .pdf costs the same).

Actually, RPGNow has many products available in print ... they are about the same price as any other print copy and you will NOT find them in your FLGS. So that shoots down most of your reasons there.

If my FLGS had a CD-ROM on the shelf for $20 or $30 with a group of very popular and successful .pdf's that were not available in hardcopy, I'd consider it (still don't like using .pdf's for actual gaming, but they'd be okay as references).

Actually, we are finalizing deals with distributors to provide some POD's to your FLGS... so you'll have the best of both worlds soon!

James

 

[wingsandsword]

I like shopping at my FLGS. I like the experience of browsing the shelves, I like meeting new gamers and running across old friends and talking to them. I like encountering books I never would have looked at before, I like browsing through the used bin and finding discounts on old books. I like paying cash for things. I don't like using plastic unless I must, and I never use checks. I like actually physically taking my purchase with me when I buy it, and I don't like ordering things to recieve them in the mail.

To be honest, I just like the experience of shopping for things at an actual "Brick & Mortar" store, and shopping online is never as satisfying. There are so many intangibles I miss, and when online stores emulate them, they are never quite as well. Yes, you can meet other gamers on a message board, but they aren't neccesarily anywhere near you for finding people to game with and an actual face-to-face conversation is generally preferable IMO to a message board one, and yes some .pdf stores have "browse" features, but it's just not the same as being able to leaf through a book at your leisure.

While I can see the utility of shopping online for some people, like those who don't have a store near them, I can't see myself (or those who have ready access to such a store) really moving over to online .pdf sales (or ordering POD books) in most cases.

Now, I've certainly seen a few products in .pdf that I've thought were neat, and wanted to buy if they were ever in hardcopy on my FLGS shelf, and one time I did buy it and enjoy it when that happened (The Modern Players Companion). So I've put my money where my mouth is on "if these things I really like come to my FLGS I'll buy them".

Also, perhaps I spoke imprecisely when I said the the FLGS is the heart of the Industry, but I do believe it is the heart of Gaming. Tabletop gaming is at heart a social activity, and a place for gamers to meet and talk, and recruit for their games, and wander across a demo of a new game, go to in a group when they are out hanging out together and look at things together and share the experience.

As I said, I do hope the ENWorld Store goes well, but in my eyes I see it as a suppliment for those who cannot shop easily by other means.

 

[RangerWickett]

I wonder, in 30 years when virtual telepresence allows people to read books that belong to people elsewhere in the world, if people will be defending gaming messageboards as the heart of gaming. I know that, for me, EN World and RPG.net affect my gaming a hell of a lot more than Book Stan', Comics Kingdom, or Oxford Comics did.

 

[Vigilance]

I like shopping at my FLGS. I like the experience of browsing the shelves, I like meeting new gamers and running across old friends and talking to them. I like encountering books I never would have looked at before, I like browsing through the used bin and finding discounts on old books. I like paying cash for things. I don't like using plastic unless I must, and I never use checks. I like actually physically taking my purchase with me when I buy it, and I don't like ordering things to recieve them in the mail.

To be honest, I just like the experience of shopping for things at an actual "Brick & Mortar" store, and shopping online is never as satisfying. There are so many intangibles I miss, and when online stores emulate them, they are never quite as well. Yes, you can meet other gamers on a message board, but they aren't neccesarily anywhere near you for finding people to game with and an actual face-to-face conversation is generally preferable IMO to a message board one, and yes some .pdf stores have "browse" features, but it's just not the same as being able to leaf through a book at your leisure.

While I can see the utility of shopping online for some people, like those who don't have a store near them, I can't see myself (or those who have ready access to such a store) really moving over to online .pdf sales (or ordering POD books) in most cases.

Now, I've certainly seen a few products in .pdf that I've thought were neat, and wanted to buy if they were ever in hardcopy on my FLGS shelf, and one time I did buy it and enjoy it when that happened (The Modern Players Companion). So I've put my money where my mouth is on "if these things I really like come to my FLGS I'll buy them".

These are all legitimate personal choices and Id never quibble. The way people like to shop, how much they like to shop, and what they like to shop for all up to them.

What I was taking issue with was the notion that the FLGS is necessary for the gaming industry, or even desirable.

Again, MUCH more of your money goes to the people who made the products you buy if you buy direct. This is even true when you buy from Amazon.

When you buy from your LGS you are supporting that LGS, the Distributor who sends them product, and THEN the company that made the product (in that order).

Its also important to remember that publishers not being paid AT ALL by Distributors is a recurring theme in the industry right now.

In other words many times you are supporting everyone BUT the publishers of the products you buy.

This is why so many manufacturers have been encouraging people to buy direct from them as well as selling PDFs. The money goes straight to them, they get more money, and they are much more assured of being paid.

Also, perhaps I spoke imprecisely when I said the the FLGS is the heart of the Industry, but I do believe it is the heart of Gaming. Tabletop gaming is at heart a social activity, and a place for gamers to meet and talk, and recruit for their games, and wander across a demo of a new game, go to in a group when they are out hanging out together and look at things together and share the experience.

As I said, I do hope the ENWorld Store goes well, but in my eyes I see it as a suppliment for those who cannot shop easily by other means.

Again- not quibbling with your choices... but there are PLENTY of other places for people to gather for social gaming. I have gamed at LGS, houses of the gamers involved, rented tables at local restaurants, signed up for study rooms at university libraries and so forth.

Im not even including ways to play electronically, such as Open RPG and Fantasy Grounds.

If you had to choose between your LGS and the publishers you buy from, which would you choose?

And keep in mind this has affected larger companies in recent times, not just the little guys.

So I dont disagree with your choice to shop where you shop, but I do feel its worth pointing out that the statement "I support my LGS to support the industry/gaming" that I hear online isnt as much a truism as it once was.

But technology (especially the internet) makes it easier for gamers to learn about new games outside the LGS and the current distribution system mean that the best way to support the companies that make your games is to buy direct from them.

That fact *saddens* me, I too have fond memories of many great game stores.

But the times, they are a'changing.

Chuck

 

[PieAndDragon]

I don't currently buy PDFs, but am thinking about getting one or two if I can't find them in print.

I'd consider using ENGS just because I like the reviews they do and often base my purchases upon them.

 

[Roudi]

ENGS uses paypal if i'm not mistaken?

I was able to purchase from the ENGS using a simple credit card transaction, without involving Paypal. Paypal is an option, but it is by no means the only option.

 

[Morrus]

You know, I've never really had the FLGS experience. All my life, RPG products have just been on shelves in the corner of a larger store. I feel like I've missed out.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I think that bricks and mortar gaming stores are still needed to keep the hobby alive. Sure there are plenty of options available for people to get the books they want online, find a new group online, talk about their favourite RPG online, etc. But how does the total newbie gamer ever find out about the game in the first place. I imagine that a lot of the general populace would not even be aware that the roleplaying hobby still exists.

"Dungeons and Dragons? Wasn't that some game that people played back in the 1980's when Atari's and Commodore 64's were popular. Do people still play those games?"

Where is the new blood going to come from to keep the hobby alive if they never even know that such a thing exists in the first place?

I know that roleplaying books are more common in bookstores and department stores compared to 5 years ago but could the average sales assistant explain to the newbie how exactly roleplaying works? I doubt it. Sure word of mouth is a good way of getting the roleplaying game known, and a lot of people probably started playing because their friends had heard about it from someone and started up their own game. But where did that person find out about the game in the first place. I imagine a lot of the time it would all come back to the FLGS.

That is why I think we still need them to exist going forward if our hobby is going to survive. We can't continue on forever with a shrinking customer base.

Olaf the Stout