D&D 5E Encounter Building - It's not Deadly, its Epic!

[NaturalZero]

Back when we were running 3.5 multiple times a week, a lot of us who DMed started to transition from running the recommended amount of daily encounters to just going one big one per day. It ended up making things a lot more dramatic, more often. We either had a social or exploration day, or one with an epic battle.

It's interesting to see people running 5e drifting that way again. The DMG says that a group can typically handle 6 to 8 medium to hard, or fewer if they're even more difficult, but it might be worth it going balls-to-the-wall for one big one.

 

[Lyxen]

Back when we were running 3.5 multiple times a week, a lot of us who DMed started to transition from running the recommended amount of daily encounters to just going one big one per day. It ended up making things a lot more dramatic, more often. We either had a social or exploration day, or one with an epic battle.

It's interesting to see people running 5e drifting that way again. The DMG says that a group can typically handle 6 to 8 medium to hard, or fewer if they're even more difficult, but it might be worth it going balls-to-the-wall for one big one.

We do that extremely often, because our tables are much more roleplay and story than combat, but you have to be very careful, because at that level of difference, 5e becomes extremely swingy, especially if you have optimised glass canons for PCs.

It also has the disadvantage of not taking into account the rest periods of various classes, and to allow some classes that can nova to do so because they think that it's going to be the only fight of the day.

Having only one adversary also makes the action economy tricky even with legendary and lair actions, so it's much easier to have multiple monsters than just a big one, which makes the fight even more swingy.

Finally, you have to be careful, the DMG recommendation is based on standard PCs without options, and therefore without feats and multiclassing, and therefore without the tools that make optimisation really powerful. So it and the table above still need a lot of adjustment compared to the power of the party. Not mentioning adjustment due to circumstances, surprise is not as deadly as in 3e where buffs are everything, but it is still very powerful.

 

[toucanbuzz]

Yes but you mentioned that your PCs had major magic items.

Sorta. The legacy item weapon was currently a +1 weapon, not out of line too much for a 5th level party. Of course, it was in the hands of a paladin. Smite vs. solo boss = (often) easier PC win.

 

[Islayre d'Argolh]

This probably old news to some, but today I stumbled across this article from DMDave: How to Create Epic Encounters and I thought some people might find it useful.

If i read this correctly : 3 level 4 or 4 level 3 Phandelver PC can go and fight Venomfang (CR 8) and the fight will not be "epic" ("epic" starts at CR 9) ?
Does this feel right to you guys ?

 

[dave2008]

If i read this correctly : 3 level 4 or 4 level 3 Phandelver PC can go and fight Venomfang (CR 8) and the fight will not be "epic" ("epic" starts at CR 9) ?
Does this feel right to you guys ?

If you read the article linked, you will note that what he calls "epic" is anything over 50% and up to 100% of your daily XP budget. This table only captures one point within that range. So what is considered "epic" is actually not so rigid. This table is just a "rule-of-thumb" approach for a quick check.

Now, I would also like to point out that CR and XP comparisons don't make a battle "epic" either. They are just a tool to get you in the ballpark. The DM needs to provide the rest of it.

Finally, this table doesn't, IMO, take into account the difference in PCs at low levels vs mid to high levels. Low level PCs are much more squishy and will likely be much more challenged by these "epic" encounters because there is a higher likelihood of instant death.

 

[Stalker0]

Low level PCs are much more squishy and will likely be much more challenged by these "epic" encounters because there is a higher likelihood of instant death.

This is a very important note.

The difference between 4th and 5th level characters can be MASSIVE. Many characters DOUBLE their offense at this level (through extra attack). Suddenly spells like fireball are options on the field.

Further, I also find 5th level is generally where PC hitpoints are high enough that the chance of dying outright from a single attack drops markedly, aka generally only a really powerful crit still has a chance.

Its telling that on the chart, the CR of solo monsters increases by full 5 points comparing a 4th level party to a 5th level one.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Sorta. The legacy item weapon was currently a +1 weapon, not out of line too much for a 5th level party. Of course, it was in the hands of a paladin. Smite vs. solo boss = (often) easier PC win.

But I actually think, that is what a paladin should do best.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This is a very important note.

The difference between 4th and 5th level characters can be MASSIVE. Many characters DOUBLE their offense at this level (through extra attack). Suddenly spells like fireball are options on the field.

Further, I also find 5th level is generally where PC hitpoints are high enough that the chance of dying outright from a single attack drops markedly, aka generally only a really powerful crit still has a chance.

Its telling that on the chart, the CR of solo monsters increases by full 5 points comparing a 4th level party to a 5th level one.

And it is the point, where any single classed character beomes about twice as powerful:
- spellcasters gain level 3 spells which are way better than lvl 2 spells and cantrips double their damage. The bard gets the lowest power leap, but gets short rest inspiration which does not help too much on a single fight, but still allows you to use them without hestiation.

- barbarian, fighter, monks, rangers, paladins gain extra attack and the latter two also gain level 2 spells. The monk gets stunning strike amd the fighter 4 attacks in a nova round.
The barbarian probably gets the lowest jump, but fast movement does get in handy.

- that leaves the rogue, who "only" gets 1d6 more sneak attack damage offensively. But uncanny doge more or less doubles the hp. Also expertise skills will go up two points which make dex based skills a lot more reliable (they are usually at +10 by then, which often is an auto success).

That leaves the artificer, but besides two classes having extra attack and second level spells, the other two have potent cantrips and some other tricks at their sleeves. So yes, overall they are probably twice as powerful as 4th level characters.