Encouraging Elven Player Characters

[Nadaka]

This thread is, in and of itself, very good. I am very upset to see the amount of anti-elf sentiment out there, though I know why it exists.

Elves are an incredible role-playing challenge. To the nine hells with at one with the forest (although most are) and namby-pamby.

I am not anti-elf. I am anti-(elitist elf fanboyism with a subrace that is better than all other options for every single class)

Let your players consider these tidbits:

- Elves live a thousand years or more with a low birth rate. Have your players ever really dwelt on that? The repercussions are astounding.
1) Elves cannot afford to have crime. They cannot afford murder or anything else of that nature within their own society.
2) Due to their long lifespan, elves must be extraordinairily cautious not to offend one another. An elven bloodoath is a serious thing and not to be taken lightly. Imagine how... polite.... elves have to be in order to sustain their fragile civilization? Each nuance, each emotion that plays across their faces must be carefully guarded. In a society where a grudge can hold for a few hundred years, imagine what a family feud would do. Entire elven groups wiped out by in-fighting.
3) Elves live a thousand years. What affect does that have on their outlook? Does it explain why elves favor ranged combat and sniping? Is the prospect of limb loss a dreadful one to the elves? I can only imagine. Hell. I will live to be about 80 or so and the prospect is still scary.
4) Elves appear haughty. Why? Are they afraid of the infectious stupidity that is so often demonstrated by other races, humans in particular? Do the non-elves in your world realize this? What face do the elves put on when they are asked for aid? Are they wise teachers?

eh, elves IMC don't have a particularly low birth rate. Firtile ~twice a year vs human ~12/year. But then again, they remain fertile from the age of 15 to whenever someone killes them (there are a few that are over 100k years old). The only thing keeping thier population in check is that they have the drow, orcs and everyone else they disrespect (just about everyone) out gunning for them. This a reaction to the way I see people play elves. At least 75% of the elves I have seen in play are holier-than-thou with a barely restrained contempt for all that is not elf.

These are just a few of the challenges that present themselves to would-be elf characters. I confess that they may be looking a little deeper into the RPing side then some might want to go, but they are presented just the same. I hope that you find them useful.

Later!

I see elves as no better or worse than any other race from an RP perspective. What makes them better than dwarves, humans, halflings or orcs?

 

[mirivor]

Nadaka:

First: My post was in no way an attack on anyone or their view of elves.

Second: It was meant as a suggested method of gaining the interest of role-players.

Third: Elves, in no way, are as fertile as humans. If they were, the world would not exist as it does. You could decree that elves are indeed as fertile as humans, but you would have to remake the entire Realms to fit that idea. Just because it is fantasy doesn't mean that logic and reason have to go out the window. If elves are as fertiles as humans, how are they so outnumbered? Surely with a lifespan of a thousand years elves would outnumber all other races by now. In addition, elves do not reach maturity until 25 years of age. They are not considered to be marriage-ready until they are 100 years old, which is when most start their families. They also stop birthing at about 200 years of age. Read pages 12 and 13 of Races of the Wild. It may change your mind.

Fourth: The person who truly sees elves as a better selection than any other race for any class is truly infatuated with them. I can logically, mechanically, and even mathematically disprove that idea. They are better for a select few classes, just like the dwarves, humans, halflings, gnomes, half-orcs, etc.

Fifth: I never declared elves to be better than any other race as an RP challenge. I merely pointed out their hooks and particular difficulties.

Finally: Consider this. Elves are indeed aloof. Shouldn't they be? Dragons consider themselves aloof due in part to their long lifespan, so what is the problem with elves doing the same? Surely the fact that elves are declared adults at an age when most humans have lived half of their lives would have some impact on the elven outlook, as it would on the other reacs' views of the elves.

Elves have been, in most fantasy stories, a mysterious and powerful race. In the LoTR RPG, elves are distinctly more powerful than their non-elven brethren. Power is one of the finest tools for making something seem elite.

Instead of disliking elves for the way everyone else sees them, try liking them for how you see them.

 

[Nadaka]

I do like my elves, also note that as stated in a previous post, my elves are not the standard. They age just as fast as humans do until they finish puberty. Then they stop aging completely. And you are right, they are not as fertile as humans, but they are hardly so infertile that they can not manage to keep up with their natural death rate of 0. Why are elves relatively few in number? Accident&Disease (thanks to low con) and the perils of having a half dozen sworn racial enemies when the elves primary god promotes regular crusades against those enemies, and they retaliate in kind.

As for elves being superior for every class, standard elves no. But when you add 10, 20 and in somecases more! elven subraces with every combination of of ability score bonus/penalty imaginable and it get old real fast.

No offence taken, hope you took none in kind.

 

[taferial]

I can easily trace back any Elf hate in my group to Shadowrun, theres only so many times you can be bent over a barrel...

Most of us came to DnD via MERP so elves were always cool for us, and I tend to run elves on the Tolkien template. The DnD elf is obviously based on tolkiens ideas but seems to have missed the point in several areas... their shorter, weaker (-2 con dosnt sugest longevity to me at least) and their history suggests a tendency to tantrums, petty behaviour and racial supremacy. The con thing also encourages um.. careful play we'll call it, which tends to reinforce the wussy stereotype.

Personaly I have been tempted to chuck out a lot (all in fact) of their racial stuff, secret door detection? helps while living in a forrest does it? Weapon familiarity? warlike chaps with lots of Steel they are not. Id rather see something like +1 effective caster level, animal empathy and wild stride and some skill bonuses to the traditional elf skills.

Jus my opinion.

 

[mirivor]

Nadaka: None taken at all.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Switch Wizard for Bard. Goes a long way toward enhancing their prospects for survival and their overall competence-- six skills, healing spells, light armor, reflex save and medium BAB.

 

[Priest_Sidran]

I can easily trace back any Elf hate in my group to Shadowrun, theres only so many times you can be bent over a barrel...

Most of us came to DnD via MERP so elves were always cool for us, and I tend to run elves on the Tolkien template. The DnD elf is obviously based on tolkiens ideas but seems to have missed the point in several areas... their shorter, weaker (-2 con dosnt sugest longevity to me at least) and their history suggests a tendency to tantrums, petty behaviour and racial supremacy. The con thing also encourages um.. careful play we'll call it, which tends to reinforce the wussy stereotype.

Personaly I have been tempted to chuck out a lot (all in fact) of their racial stuff, secret door detection? helps while living in a forrest does it? Weapon familiarity? warlike chaps with lots of Steel they are not. Id rather see something like +1 effective caster level, animal empathy and wild stride and some skill bonuses to the traditional elf skills.

Jus my opinion.

Well the phb statistics are for High Elves (the base elf). They DO have a lote of metal and are not specifically inclined to the woods. They are magically charged, and are more apt to find secrets due to their sensitivity to things.

What you were describing is a Wood Elf, or a Wild Elf.

I like elves I just don't like innundating my setting with them, and on that vein I don't like Half-Orcs or Orcs either as they are over used. My newest setting that I am working with has a profusion of orc-like bad guys in that they are relatively feral, little civilization, and are warlike. Elves on the other hand find their way into the setting but are laid back limited by their age, and are a race that is fading faster and faster every year. (Its a dark fantasy low magic grim and gritty world though so...)