Endure Elements

[Jcosby]

Endure Elements:



Endure Elements - only protects against adverse conditions, not damage



Abjuration; Endure Elements: "Subject avoids harm from hot and cold enviroments

Does not protext against fire or cold damage."

Duration: 24hrs



Above is the basic text for Endure Elements. I'm currently running a group of players who just entered the Anauroch desert in Forgotten Realms. The group has two characters that can cast Endure Elements and between them can memorize enough spells to cover everyone in the party with Endure Elements every 24hrs.



One of the risks of entering a hostile environment like a desert is the heat and dying due to lack of water. It seems with this 1st level spell that all of the risks associated with the hostile environment are completely erased. (Heat and thirst risks of course, doesn’t help with sink holes monsters etc.. of course)



It says the target is protected from "Adverse conditions" and it also states for temperatures up to 140 degrees. The way I'm reading it is the characters while under this spell will not be affected by the heat in any way shape or form for 24hrs for each casting.



I have no problem with the basic spell, I guess I have a problem with the duration of 24hrs, seem a bit long for a 1st level spell.



I guess what I'm trying to ask is would the characters still be required to consume extra quantities of water to keep hydrated and just not feel the effects? Or would this spell protect them completely?



Thanks

Jeff

 

[nak9788]

I would say that they would have to consume a normal quantity of water. And even if they did, if they can cast endure elements, I would hope they cast Create water, which should provide them with plenty of water for a day (of course they need to have something to carry it).

 

[Bloosquig]

I would say that they would need no more water or food or whatnot then they would in a "normal" environment. The entire point of the spell is to help avoid the problems associated with adventuring in arctic or desert environments. Since the spell doesn't prevent damage I would feel cheated as a player if I spent several spell slots on the spell and still had to drink extra water and got tired from the heat but you told me I was "comfortable" while dying.
So IMO I would let them avoid all environmental heat and cold detriments while under the spell. And about the duration issue, well I would let it stand as well. Its one of those spells that could be a pain to keep track of if you had it shorter then a day. Easier just to say, alright the wizard will just ignore those 4 slots for the party while we're in the desert and barring weirdness nobody will get hurt by the heat / cold. IMO. Good luck!

 

[Saeviomagy]

First - drop the small font and annoying colour.

Second - a game where the threat comes from any of the following:

lack of water
lack of food
fatigue
boredom
encumberance

is boring. If you expect your party to get a thrill out of provisioning for an expedition, be totally prepared to get utterly disappointed. If you expect some sort of intense roleplaying out of people because you've made their water run out, you're on a sure fire line to failure.

Give it up.

Let them explore the desert without any problems due to food or water. Make the game interesting with monsters, dungeons and NPC encounters. The spells (as well as skills like survival) exist to let you do that, so take advantage of them.

 

[Jcosby]

First - drop the small font and annoying colour.

Second - a game where the threat comes from any of the following:

lack of water
lack of food
fatigue
boredom
encumberance

is boring. If you expect your party to get a thrill out of provisioning for an expedition, be totally prepared to get utterly disappointed. If you expect some sort of intense roleplaying out of people because you've made their water run out, you're on a sure fire line to failure.

Give it up.

Let them explore the desert without any problems due to food or water. Make the game interesting with monsters, dungeons and NPC encounters. The spells (as well as skills like survival) exist to let you do that, so take advantage of them.

First: Excuse me. (was pasted from word...)

Second: I will make sure you are not playing in any of my games.. (sarcasm..)

Third: Thank you for the constructive critizism (more of that sarcasm..)

To the other person/people that replied, thanks. Yea the more I think about it, the more having to waste the spell slots for a spell that only has one purpose it enough of a burden on the players.

If the designers didn't want people to pay attention to weight, movement, provisions, etc they would not have added them into the game. No, I don't go over board when players are wandering around areas where food is easy to get or game plentyful. But in extreme enviroments I make sure they have what they need to survive. If they don't there are penalties, which are also in the game rules.

What I really wanted to know is if they would have to consume more water even with the endure spell going. I've decided no, they won't have too and since the spell duration is 24hrs they will have no problem keeping the party protected through out the adventure in the desert.

Jeff
(*The Boring DM*)

 

[shilsen]

First - drop the small font and annoying colour.

Second - a game where the threat comes from any of the following:

lack of water
lack of food
fatigue
boredom
encumberance

is boring. If you expect your party to get a thrill out of provisioning for an expedition, be totally prepared to get utterly disappointed. If you expect some sort of intense roleplaying out of people because you've made their water run out, you're on a sure fire line to failure.

Give it up.

Let them explore the desert without any problems due to food or water. Make the game interesting with monsters, dungeons and NPC encounters. The spells (as well as skills like survival) exist to let you do that, so take advantage of them.

Small suggestion - don't assume every group is the same. Some people would find it intensely exciting to deal with issues such as a lack of water/food, fatigue, encumbrance, etc. Some wouldn't. Unless a poster tells you that his group is having problems and not enjoying the game (which Jcosby didn't), assume that they are and don't tell the other person that he's playing/DMing the game "wrong".

 

[ThirdWizard]

lack of water
lack of food
fatigue
boredom
encumberance

All excelent hooks into interesting roleplaying scenarios.

My suggestion is to only once hit them with a dispel magic trap (targeted dispel on each of them). Don't make a habit of this, and don't do it in order to just screw the players. Just for a day, they'll have their defenses down and have to make do on their own. This will give them a nice appreciation for what they're avoiding, at least. They'll spend one day surviving the conditions of the desert, then go back to their more comfortable approach.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Though the 'tude was smarmy, Saeviomagy actually has a pretty okay point at the core.

Basically: You want to make the party feel the effects of the environment, but the game is set up in such a way to actually make the effects of the environment rather...well, timid. They don't fear the desert heat so much, because they can make it magically go away. You want them to fear the desert heat. Aside from cheating them out of fair use of their spells or changing the basic way magic works in your game, you're kinda limited in your options -- struggling against being *hot* is just not something that most heroes really have to bother with based on D&D's assumptions, and that spell.

But they're something right?

Well, like any other power in D&D, casting a spell requires a choice -- do I use this slot, do I save it for something I'll need later? I would say, to make them feel the effects of the environment, make them *regret* casting that spell so often, by sapping up their other magical rescources. Plenty of monsters that fight from a huge distance -- maybe ones weak to magic your characters have. Basically, buffing a party full of a spell means that the spellcasters can't do as much in battle. When a million and one little rats swarm down on the party, those area-effect things that you're now out of would've come in mighty handy....

Instill a value in the spell not by making the conditions worse, but by depleting the rescources they actually *do* care about; namely, spell slots. Those Protection from Elements spells sap up energy -- make them need that very same energy. The choice between casting that spell and saving it to cast Magic Missile should be a hard one, and if they're only feeling pressure from the heat, it won't be that hard -- so put on multiple pressures, and make them *hurt* for rescources. Every protection they use is one less Cure they can have when they need it. They should have problems with running out of spells on a regular basis, struggles with monsters that Magic Missile would be a useful tactic against -- if they hadn't only memorized the protection, of course. Buffing four people is a lot of magical energy, even for some of the higher-level spells.

Popular ways to use up their magic is to have them use it on passers-by (who may even offer to pay them for it): the tired pilgrim, the wandering nomad tribe, the nearly ruined city they stumbled accross -- all those people could benefit from water and protection from the heat. Are the PC's gonna selfishly hoard it while those out there suffer? Again, hitting them with monsters is a good way, too. You don't need to worry about making the mages feel useful -- they obviously are. So remove them. Attack them. Take them out. Or make them spend their magic rapidly in some way -- magic missile is useful on flying monsters and distant monsters and element-proof monsters, so have them use it up as much as possible. These talents (and combos of them) should mean that for at least a day or two, they're really making hard choices about which rescources to expend.

But if you don't want to play by the game's rules and bother with besieging your players with monsters or NPC's that use up their precious magic, change the spell. If it only gives you a +4 bonus to those saves vs. environment, or only stops one of them (or even half of them), or works like a Survival check, it's a lot less effective. And that's a house rule I'm sure a lot of DM's could get behind.

 

[iwatt]

All excelent hooks into interesting roleplaying scenarios.

My suggestion is to only once hit them with a dispel magic trap (targeted dispel on each of them). Don't make a habit of this, and don't do it in order to just screw the players. Just for a day, they'll have their defenses down and have to make do on their own. This will give them a nice appreciation for what they're avoiding, at least. They'll spend one day surviving the conditions of the desert, then go back to their more comfortable approach.

This a great idea. And you don't even have to use a dispel magic trap which some players will think smacks of DM "screwing". Use the fact that it's the FR and Anauroch in particular: Dead magic zones + wild magic zones. Just amke sure the players understand that in a desert, it's a bad idea to wander off the known path, and have the known path lie smack down in the middle of a dead magic area. Have it last for a couple of days of trekking. As another option For even more rat-bastardly DMness, have the PCs appear as a nice succulent target for the Phaerimms (sp?) since they're glowing with all that magic in a desert.

 

[Plane Sailing]

You could even change the spell to be more like its 3.0 incarnation - providing 5 pts resistance against one energy type for 24 hrs (which is a useful benefit) but if you are protected from the heat of the day you are not protected from the cold of the night which is fierce enough to crack rocks... similarly it could protect against fire damage but not against heat exhaustion.

My 4th level sorcerer was really put out when 3.5e arrived because of the way it "downgraded" Endure Elements (and burning hands).

Just a thought