D&D 5E Enemies of Asmodeus FORGOTTEN REALMS
MonsterEnvy
Legend
Almost none of the gods are likely fans of Asmodeus. Still I can't think of any that would outright oppose him due to his power and control of the nine hells. Plus having Tiamat as a guard dog.
Many Evil gods likely bargain with him to gain devil servants. Guys like Torm, Try and Lathander likely hate him and his forces.
Almost every Archdevil would love to dethrone him and take his place. But they are kept in check by each other and Asmodeus' superiority to them.
Many Evil gods likely bargain with him to gain devil servants. Guys like Torm, Try and Lathander likely hate him and his forces.
Almost every Archdevil would love to dethrone him and take his place. But they are kept in check by each other and Asmodeus' superiority to them.
The list of those that do not oppose him would be shorter.
The good deities war against him and the hells in principle, the evil deities due to evil not wanting to share and the neutral deities to due him being a General threat.
Even the other devils, from the mightiest archdevil to The lowest lemure would topple him if they could
The good deities war against him and the hells in principle, the evil deities due to evil not wanting to share and the neutral deities to due him being a General threat.
Even the other devils, from the mightiest archdevil to The lowest lemure would topple him if they could
Lancelot
Adventurer
2e literature (e.g. Planescape) had some of the non-evil lawful gods actively aiding the baatezu (i.e. devils) in the Blood War. 3e literature (e.g. Fiendish Codex II) broadened this into a discussion of Asmodeus' role in divine politics. 4e promptly changed a lot of this lore, and now 5e seems to be going back towards a 2e/3e view.
Of the various "takes" on Asmodeus, I tend to go with a blend of 2e/3e lore. In other words: Asmodeus was a servant of the Good gods. He was a front-line commander in their war against the nihilistic hordes of the Abyss, which seek to unmake all of creation. Unlike the other gods, he was not afraid to get his hands dirty. He used the methods of the enemy to defeat them, and was slowly corrupted (in morals and appearance) by this approach. However, none could deny his efficiency. If the Good gods didn't wish to continue sanctioning him, then they either had to get their hands dirty themselves... or they had to concede that they would lose more battles (innocent lives) by refusing to employ some strategies.
So, they continued to offer their reluctant blessing. Asmodeus (and his lieutenants: Dispater and Mephistopheles) continued the fight against the demons. But, as the Good gods increasingly distanced themselves from the horrors of the war, Asmodeus (reasonably) requested that he needed to draw power from another source. Hence, a pact whereby the "devils" (growing more and more twisted in form and evil) would punish sinners and draw strength from their torment. This solved many problems for the Good gods. The "devils" would continue defending the innocent from Chaos, the Good gods wouldn't have to get directly involved, and the only people who would suffer were the evil sinners who were transgressing against the Good gods anyway.
Of course, then they found out much later that the "devils" weren't just punishing the sinners that fell into their possession... they were actively tempting all mortals into sinning, increasing their own power. As Asmodeus said: "Maybe you guys didn't read the fine print in our agreement..."
...
That's a real brief summary of the 3e lore from Fiendish Codex, which seems like a useful starting point with Asmodeus. It gives him a motivation and a history other than being eeeevil. He's the hard-bitten general facing a lethal foe who, in his disgust at the Ivory Tower politicians, decided to work around them. There's a certain nobility to his goals (prevent the annihilation of the multiverse by the Abyssal hordes), even if he has become totally corrupted by his own desire for power and uses the most vile methods himself.
It also suggests a more complex relationship with the gods than just: yeah, he's evil. The Good guys don't like him, and most of the Bad guys don't either. I kind of dislike alignment lines being drawn that plainly. If all the Good gods are on Team Blue, and all the Evil gods are on Team Red, then it's just boring.
I'd guess that some LG and LN gods secretly support (and maybe even admire) Asmodeus. As mentioned above, 2e sources suggested that some non-evil Lawful powers aided the devils in the Blood War. Primus has a dedicated modron army that aids the devils, and gods like (LG) Clangeddin actively fight the demons (perhaps alongside devils, sometimes - even if he isn't happy about it). I could see some of the more martial LG and LN gods having a grudging respect for Asmodeus' role as Ruthless Defender of the Lawful Side. In the Forgotten Realms, I could see Tyr... and possibly Tempus... as being okay with Asmodeus for this reason. There could also be some LG gods who are secretly embarrassed about the history mentioned above. They wish to conceal their own complicity in the Pact Primeval with Asmodeus (initially sanctioning his actions against the demons) from their own worshipers. Hence, they may be susceptible to blackmail from the devils ("Work with us, or we'll reveal to your followers that you let this happen"), or at least don't publicly denounce them.
By contrast, the CG powers are probably the biggest opponents of Asmodeus. They're less worried about the encroaching ravages of Chaos, and they're appalled at the loss of individual freedoms that have resulted from the Lawful guys basically letting Asmodeus do their dirty work. Organizations like the Harpers would probably be among the fiercest opponents of devilkind, along with the gods they serve.
Of the various "takes" on Asmodeus, I tend to go with a blend of 2e/3e lore. In other words: Asmodeus was a servant of the Good gods. He was a front-line commander in their war against the nihilistic hordes of the Abyss, which seek to unmake all of creation. Unlike the other gods, he was not afraid to get his hands dirty. He used the methods of the enemy to defeat them, and was slowly corrupted (in morals and appearance) by this approach. However, none could deny his efficiency. If the Good gods didn't wish to continue sanctioning him, then they either had to get their hands dirty themselves... or they had to concede that they would lose more battles (innocent lives) by refusing to employ some strategies.
So, they continued to offer their reluctant blessing. Asmodeus (and his lieutenants: Dispater and Mephistopheles) continued the fight against the demons. But, as the Good gods increasingly distanced themselves from the horrors of the war, Asmodeus (reasonably) requested that he needed to draw power from another source. Hence, a pact whereby the "devils" (growing more and more twisted in form and evil) would punish sinners and draw strength from their torment. This solved many problems for the Good gods. The "devils" would continue defending the innocent from Chaos, the Good gods wouldn't have to get directly involved, and the only people who would suffer were the evil sinners who were transgressing against the Good gods anyway.
Of course, then they found out much later that the "devils" weren't just punishing the sinners that fell into their possession... they were actively tempting all mortals into sinning, increasing their own power. As Asmodeus said: "Maybe you guys didn't read the fine print in our agreement..."
...
That's a real brief summary of the 3e lore from Fiendish Codex, which seems like a useful starting point with Asmodeus. It gives him a motivation and a history other than being eeeevil. He's the hard-bitten general facing a lethal foe who, in his disgust at the Ivory Tower politicians, decided to work around them. There's a certain nobility to his goals (prevent the annihilation of the multiverse by the Abyssal hordes), even if he has become totally corrupted by his own desire for power and uses the most vile methods himself.
It also suggests a more complex relationship with the gods than just: yeah, he's evil. The Good guys don't like him, and most of the Bad guys don't either. I kind of dislike alignment lines being drawn that plainly. If all the Good gods are on Team Blue, and all the Evil gods are on Team Red, then it's just boring.
I'd guess that some LG and LN gods secretly support (and maybe even admire) Asmodeus. As mentioned above, 2e sources suggested that some non-evil Lawful powers aided the devils in the Blood War. Primus has a dedicated modron army that aids the devils, and gods like (LG) Clangeddin actively fight the demons (perhaps alongside devils, sometimes - even if he isn't happy about it). I could see some of the more martial LG and LN gods having a grudging respect for Asmodeus' role as Ruthless Defender of the Lawful Side. In the Forgotten Realms, I could see Tyr... and possibly Tempus... as being okay with Asmodeus for this reason. There could also be some LG gods who are secretly embarrassed about the history mentioned above. They wish to conceal their own complicity in the Pact Primeval with Asmodeus (initially sanctioning his actions against the demons) from their own worshipers. Hence, they may be susceptible to blackmail from the devils ("Work with us, or we'll reveal to your followers that you let this happen"), or at least don't publicly denounce them.
By contrast, the CG powers are probably the biggest opponents of Asmodeus. They're less worried about the encroaching ravages of Chaos, and they're appalled at the loss of individual freedoms that have resulted from the Lawful guys basically letting Asmodeus do their dirty work. Organizations like the Harpers would probably be among the fiercest opponents of devilkind, along with the gods they serve.
I thought Tiamat was situated in the Abyss?
MonsterEnvy
Legend
Nope she is a lawful evil goddess that made her home in the first layer of hell right next to the entrance to the second layer. Making her pretty much Cerberus for D&D hell.
Tiamat has never had anything to do with the Abyss.
Lancelot
Adventurer
In the Dragonlance setting, Takhisis (Queen of Darkness) is usually identified with Tiamat. They both have a five-headed chromatic dragon form, and they're both considered the Queen of Evil Dragonkind. In the Dragonlance series of novels, the home of Takhisis is repeatedly identified as the Abyss.
Various D&D supplements have explained this away as being an error by Krynn natives who don't know any better. According to the early supplements, she's the same entity as Tiamat, but she's actually based in Hell. Hence, the place that characters in the books (like Raistlin, etc) refer to as the Abyss is actually Hell. I'm guessing a key reason for switching the name to the Abyss for the novels was to avoid the real world Biblical implications. "The Abyss" is a fairly generic term; "Hell" is quite specific.
On a side note, some D&D supplements identify Takhisis as being CE in alignment (which is clearly Abyssal, and not at all the same as Tiamat). Others peg her as LE. The original trilogy pretty clearly implies that her methods are LE. Her armies are very organized, have a clear structure, snazzy uniforms, and a goal that tends towards domination rather than pure destruction and anarchy.
I also vaguely recall an old supplement which stated that draconians were formed when the spirits of abishai devils (earlier edition devils that haven't appeared in 5e yet) were infused into good dragon eggs. This is further proof that Takhisis = Tiamat, she's actually LE, and the mortal inhabitants of Krynn are simply confused about which plane she comes from (i.e. they have no concept of individual lower planes, and refer to all of them as "The Abyss").
No, that would be the Yugoloths. They're unabashedly godless abominations and refer to all clerics as "god slaves". Just ask Shemeska the Marauder in the story hour forums and I'm sure he'll be able to point you to some excellent literature. It's a shame that WotC decided to dump the Planescape setting and scrambled much of its Blood War background story that existed in 2E as it was very richly detailed.
Sumerian/Babylonian Tiamat is the mother of all monsters from the sea of chaos (the abyss?). Which is how she is portrayed in my campaigns.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiamat
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